Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

2017 U.S. Rankings Out; GULC ousted from T14

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/20 17-usnwr-rankings-are-her dharamsala03/07/17
LMFAO how did Rutgers jump 30 spots? Glad to see my alumn isthisit03/07/17
In the 50-100 range, big jumps aren't unusual. The big diff dingbat03/08/17
I believe it had to do with a merger of the Camden and Newar ilovethelawjk03/15/17
how can St Johns be ranked higher than Brooklyn? WTF? associatex03/07/17
I know...I saw this too after not even looking at the rankin prestiiigiousone03/13/17
92) Texas A&M (+19) Wow, that is quite the jump. barelylegal03/07/17
GULC is now T20 with ND...lol. irishlaw03/07/17
Almost time for the annual Scam Dean gloating/damage control 6figuremistake03/07/17
My school dropped like a rock- will hear about access to jus tttsolo03/07/17
62) Rutgers (+30) D*mn son. blackholelaw03/07/17
I'm looking forward to the email I'll get from the dean abou isthisit03/07/17
credited. Excited for the phone calls begging for $$$ sjlawyer03/08/17
I'm a little disappointed it took Rutgers so long to send an isthisit03/14/17
The merger was a great idea, no? ilovethelawjk03/15/17
Glad we can dispense with the absurd fiction of a "T14". cargo03/08/17
My school dropped 7 spots, technically, but it was embroiled 3lol03/08/17
I believe the swings are largely due to schools lowering (or 2tierreality03/08/17
I dont know exactly how they decide on the rankings but my s thirdtierlaw03/08/17
"Also can someone explain the ridiculous amount of ties? It jonthomas03/08/17
My school didn't move. I think it's been 18 for years. bucwild03/08/17
Also, the guy who runs this blog is a former dean of my law bucwild03/08/17
The top 6 is important, the top 14 is somewhat important, bu trollfeeder03/08/17
Haha, GWU not top 20 anymore, Georgetown not top 14 anymore. mrlollipop03/08/17
they really should do regional rankings, cuz outside of the bingojackson03/08/17
My buddy graduated from GWU law 220K in debt with no job lin thepoporcoming03/08/17
Too bad for your buddy,...haha!!! mrlollipop03/08/17
2010-2013 was the worst time to graduate. All the undergrads jorgedeclaro03/08/17
I'm surprised you did not include class of 2009. dharamsala03/14/17
Counterpoint, my brother graduated from GWU law and undergra 3lol03/08/17
these rankings.... They really should have broad categori dingbat03/08/17
What would be an example of a secondary school in a secondar dharamsala03/08/17
new england school of law, University of District of Columbi dingbat03/08/17
I will say this about Cooley. For whatever reason, there wer kramer71603/08/17
Nothing "secondary" about NYLS, Nova & Cooley. I'd suggest y samfriedlander203/08/17
yeah, no, I admit, I screwed that part up, those are tertiar dingbat03/09/17
I thought U of Texas was a prestigious, quasi-T14. dharamsala03/09/17
Texas A&M dingbat03/10/17
Interesting to see how Penn State-Dickinson and Penn State-U ibrslave03/08/17
I don't think the Dickinson campus was holding Penn State ba kramer71603/08/17
Throwaway email? soupcansham03/09/17
Name recognition is a big unconscious factor. If Princet isthisit03/09/17
I suspect Princeton Law will be an automatic top 3 most of t cargo03/09/17
I don't know, for grad programs Stanford is generally better therewillbeblood03/09/17
T25 at the very minimum. Would be T14 within 10 years. prestiiigiousone03/13/17
You can voice criticism of the rankings all you want, but in parlance03/10/17
I am shocked and saddened by BC's meteoric rise... dharamsala03/14/17
Pretty astoshing how far my school has dropped since I appli spaghetti03/19/17

dharamsala (Mar 7, 2017 - 8:09 pm)

http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/2017-usnwr-rankings-are-here-2/

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isthisit (Mar 7, 2017 - 8:47 pm)

LMFAO how did Rutgers jump 30 spots?

Glad to see my alumni dollars are greasing the right palms.

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dingbat (Mar 8, 2017 - 10:51 am)

In the 50-100 range, big jumps aren't unusual. The big difference is if they break into the top 50 (itself a meaningless number) or out of the top 100 (the domain of crapola schools)

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ilovethelawjk (Mar 15, 2017 - 10:08 am)

I believe it had to do with a merger of the Camden and Newark schools.

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associatex (Mar 7, 2017 - 9:06 pm)

how can St Johns be ranked higher than Brooklyn? WTF?

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prestiiigiousone (Mar 13, 2017 - 9:25 pm)

I know...I saw this too after not even looking at the rankings for years. Step it up, BLS!

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barelylegal (Mar 7, 2017 - 9:13 pm)

92) Texas A&M (+19)

Wow, that is quite the jump.

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irishlaw (Mar 7, 2017 - 9:28 pm)

GULC is now T20 with ND...lol.

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6figuremistake (Mar 7, 2017 - 9:31 pm)

Almost time for the annual Scam Dean gloating/damage control memos.

Either:

1) XYZ Law is great; we jumped so-many-places, but of course, rankings don't mean anything *wink wink*

2) The USNWR rankings are meaningless, unfair, and probably racist! Pay no attention to our ranking...unless, of course, we improve next year

Of course, the rankings ARE largely meaningless. I highly doubt this year's graduates of Seton Hall or UNLV Law are any better off than previous classes because of the recent jump. Back when I was applying, American, Pittsburgh, and Brooklyn were solid Tier 2 schools, which flirted with the Top 50; now they're all approaching sub-100 rankings - they were lousy options then and are lousy options now.

The real rankings are: Will get a decent job (HYS); probably will get a decent job if in the top half (the next several schools); possibly will get a decent job if in top 1/3rd or so (up until about 25); probably won't get a decent job unless in the top 10% (sub 25 until about 100); all but a handful are going to be hurting (100 and below); never had a chance (un-ranked)

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tttsolo (Mar 7, 2017 - 9:42 pm)

My school dropped like a rock- will hear about access to justice and our great interest in public service

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blackholelaw (Mar 7, 2017 - 10:46 pm)

62) Rutgers (+30)

D*mn son.

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isthisit (Mar 7, 2017 - 11:00 pm)

I'm looking forward to the email I'll get from the dean about how combining the law schools was visionary.

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sjlawyer (Mar 8, 2017 - 8:11 am)

credited. Excited for the phone calls begging for $$$

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isthisit (Mar 14, 2017 - 9:10 am)

I'm a little disappointed it took Rutgers so long to send an email and get an article written about their rankings. I just saw the article on NJ.com.

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ilovethelawjk (Mar 15, 2017 - 10:09 am)

The merger was a great idea, no?

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cargo (Mar 8, 2017 - 12:18 am)

Glad we can dispense with the absurd fiction of a "T14".

T10 or bust.

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3lol (Mar 8, 2017 - 12:26 am)

My school dropped 7 spots, technically, but it was embroiled in like a 12-way tie so... who cares anyway?

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2tierreality (Mar 8, 2017 - 7:11 am)

I believe the swings are largely due to schools lowering (or some stubbornly maintaining) LSAT admission standards.
I'm guessing a private school like GULC just had too much pressure to maintain a large class size to keep the $ rolling in. I guess we'll see when the full rankings are released.

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thirdtierlaw (Mar 8, 2017 - 7:19 am)

I dont know exactly how they decide on the rankings but my school obviously doesn't care at all. When I first started it was on the cusp of being a T2. It's been plummeting ever since.

It hasn't stopped them from raising tuition. Thank God I've been in the workforce for a few years. If this trend continues they'll be in unranked territory in 5-6 years.

Also can someone explain the ridiculous amount of ties? It was like that last year as well.

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jonthomas (Mar 8, 2017 - 7:24 pm)

"Also can someone explain the ridiculous amount of ties? It was like that last year as well."

Yes, there have been lots of ties in recent years. But I don't really think they are ridiculous. It's more ridiculous to numerically rank ever school in the nation. Is there really a measurable difference between the 90th and 91st school. The rankings should really be chunks of approximately equal schools, and if you go to a school outside the top 10 or so, you should pick the best/cheapest school in the area you plan to live.

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bucwild (Mar 8, 2017 - 7:25 am)

My school didn't move. I think it's been 18 for years.

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bucwild (Mar 8, 2017 - 8:55 am)

Also, the guy who runs this blog is a former dean of my law school.

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trollfeeder (Mar 8, 2017 - 9:49 am)

The top 6 is important, the top 14 is somewhat important, but after that, these rankings are utterly meaningless.

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mrlollipop (Mar 8, 2017 - 9:52 am)

Haha, GWU not top 20 anymore, Georgetown not top 14 anymore.

UC Davis dropped to 39

These three schools should have been shamed long time ago.

Everyone in DC knows GWU and Georgetown is a degree mill house

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bingojackson (Mar 8, 2017 - 10:17 am)

they really should do regional rankings, cuz outside of the T14 you're basically glued to wherever your school is. anyway, glad to see my alma mater jump up several spots after declining the last couple years. still would like to see them back in the top 50 though...

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thepoporcoming (Mar 8, 2017 - 10:40 am)

My buddy graduated from GWU law 220K in debt with no job lined up in 2011.
Besides the expensive degree, living costs in DC is absolutely crazy.

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mrlollipop (Mar 8, 2017 - 10:44 am)

Too bad for your buddy,...haha!!!

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jorgedeclaro (Mar 8, 2017 - 1:16 pm)

2010-2013 was the worst time to graduate. All the undergrads who jumped into law school to avoid joining the real world in midsts of the financial crisis.

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dharamsala (Mar 14, 2017 - 2:17 pm)

I'm surprised you did not include class of 2009.

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3lol (Mar 8, 2017 - 2:17 pm)

Counterpoint, my brother graduated from GWU law and undergrad and has a sweet BigFed position where he gets to jetset around the world on the taxpayer dime.

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dingbat (Mar 8, 2017 - 11:01 am)

these rankings....

They really should have broad categories:

HYS (if accepted, go here)
Great Schools (the next 10 schools; if you're not too close to the bottom of the class, you'll be ok)

Top Schools in medium regions (think Vanderbilt, UCLA, Minnesota)
Secondary schools in top regions (Fordham, GW, BC/UB)
If you're in the top 1/3rd you should be ok. But don't plan on leaving the general region.

Top school in minor regions
This runs the gamut from Alabama to Wyoming. Generally speaking, the top 25% are going to be ok. great if you have very local ambitions

Tertiary schools in top regions
If you're in the top 10%, you might be ok. With a lot of hustle you might make something out of yourself due to sheer number of opportunities (though there's a corresponding amount of competition)

Secondary schools in secondary regions
You're joking, right?

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dharamsala (Mar 8, 2017 - 1:36 pm)

What would be an example of a secondary school in a secondary region? Temple?

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dingbat (Mar 8, 2017 - 2:27 pm)

new england school of law, University of District of Columbia, New York Law School, Golden Gate, Nova, Cooley, etc.

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kramer716 (Mar 8, 2017 - 3:36 pm)

I will say this about Cooley. For whatever reason, there were a ton of Cooley alums on Guam, and for the most part, they were all excellent attorneys. As far as I can tell, and it may have changed since then, they do a good job of weeding out the chaff before they graduate, so the average Cooley graduate is pretty solid, at least from my experiences.

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samfriedlander2 (Mar 8, 2017 - 10:01 pm)

Nothing "secondary" about NYLS, Nova & Cooley. I'd suggest you do a trade school on repairing refrigerators. At least then you'd like how to fix something.


#1 reason why these rankings are complete trash. They give you the false belief that a difference exist between #75 to #148. All scams. All garbage. All shouldn't exist.

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dingbat (Mar 9, 2017 - 7:53 am)

yeah, no, I admit, I screwed that part up, those are tertiary schools.
Secondary in secondary would be places like Akron or Toledo, maybe Seatle, Howard, Texas, sh*t like that

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dharamsala (Mar 9, 2017 - 4:28 pm)

I thought U of Texas was a prestigious, quasi-T14.

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dingbat (Mar 10, 2017 - 2:31 pm)

Texas A&M

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ibrslave (Mar 8, 2017 - 1:37 pm)

Interesting to see how Penn State-Dickinson and Penn State-University Park fared. I think the consensus was that the University Park school would jump in the rankings after the great divorce, and Dickinson would plummet. That was the expectation because Dickinson is a much smaller campus and has drastically less resources. University Park spent $100 million or more on its law school over the past 10 years. University Park administration has long been saying how their students will be judges and legal scholars while Dickinson students will be po-dunk prosecutors and "Main Street practitioners." And, University Park admin was unofficially saying for years that Dickinson campus was holding them back in the USNWR rankings.

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kramer716 (Mar 8, 2017 - 3:29 pm)

I don't think the Dickinson campus was holding Penn State back, but I think the Dickinson name probably was. I graduated from the Michigan State University College of Law in 07. When I started, we were called the Detroit College of Law, and we were mired in the 4th tier. They changed the name of the school to the Michigan State University-Detroit College of Law, and our ranking went up without the other numbers increasing. Finally, when I was about to graduate, they switched it to the Michigan State University College of Law and our ranking rose even more and we broke into the top 100. It appears we hit a bit of a ceiling since then based on the current rankings, but I think when people see the name of a Big Ten school they automatically give it that much more credibility.

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soupcansham (Mar 9, 2017 - 8:04 am)

Throwaway email?

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isthisit (Mar 9, 2017 - 10:49 am)

Name recognition is a big unconscious factor.

If Princeton started a law school tomorrow it'd be automatically ranked at least T25.

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cargo (Mar 9, 2017 - 8:47 pm)

I suspect Princeton Law will be an automatic top 3 most of the time. Stanford's no HYP.

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therewillbeblood (Mar 9, 2017 - 9:02 pm)

I don't know, for grad programs Stanford is generally better regarded than Princeton.

Hilarious about GULC though; it was always the trap school of the T14.

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prestiiigiousone (Mar 13, 2017 - 9:21 pm)

T25 at the very minimum. Would be T14 within 10 years.

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parlance (Mar 10, 2017 - 12:51 am)

You can voice criticism of the rankings all you want, but in the end as a law school applicant, you vote with your feet. Once you choose to attend the highest ranked law school that you got accepted to, you have acquiesced to the rankings' primacy.

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dharamsala (Mar 14, 2017 - 2:13 pm)

I am shocked and saddened by BC's meteoric rise...

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spaghetti (Mar 19, 2017 - 4:24 am)

Pretty astoshing how far my school has dropped since I applied, and especially since I graduated.

I simply can't understand why people go there anymore. The writing is so clearly on the wall - top 10% of the class after 1L or else.

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