Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Whittier Law School Closing

Dean told Whittier Law School students who were just told th justrmor04/19/17
The 49 faculty members will move directly to 49 million-doll passportfan304/19/17
It sounds like the faculty is attempting to sue to keep the justrmor04/19/17
This is great, we got a first true casualty. Beautiful. triplesix04/19/17
Didn't Indiana Tech close? jackiechiles04/19/17
They were never a true skool. adamb04/20/17
Bite your tongue. andre douglas pond cummings was Interim De causatape04/20/17
This makes me very happy. Finally a dump that has been conn e36m304/19/17
Excellent news, the casualties keep mounting. kretan18204/19/17
Not fast enough. It's been five years since the air raid sir adamb04/20/17
It would be nicer if they just had closed the school to give doublefriedchicken04/19/17
Faculty gets paid first as a senior secured creditor. Repeat triplesix04/19/17
Would a student get a refund on the debt from a closed schoo adamb04/20/17
Very happy. No sympathy for anyone except maybe the practice wolfman04/19/17
Good riddance. trickydick04/19/17
This is long overdue. By my count, only three law schools ha ichininosan04/19/17
Not at all surprising that the dominoes begin to fall in Cal trickydick04/19/17
Cooley's Ann Arbor franchise closed. vulturelaw04/20/17
"Accordingly, on April 15, 2017 the Board voted not to enrol flharfh04/19/17
Excellent news. I'll bet back in the day the LS was a cash c 6figuremistake04/19/17
Now that there is a "first" the trustees of many of these u- vohod04/19/17
"You won't have Whittier to kick around anymore." anotherjd04/19/17
I'm old enough to get that joke. In fairness to Tricky Dick, cacrimdefense04/19/17
Right on. He did undergrad at Whittier College in Whittier, trickydick04/19/17
Lots of adjuncts there. I thought there was an ABA rule tha massivemissive04/19/17
I actually considered going there. shuntiii04/19/17
Congratulations, folks. This sets a precedent. Hopefully, ot guyingorillasuit04/19/17
Several tenured faculty have already sued to enjoin the clos newsolo04/20/17
Expect fanatical lawsuits henceforth. They know their $1m mo vohod04/20/17
A TRO was filed on 4/18. It's interesting. Basically the l municipald104/20/17
Wouldn't logic dictate that the LTFT employment numbers coul 3lol04/20/17
I have no doubt the shcool did that but the people scammed a triplesix04/20/17
Are law professors sophisticated enough buyers to know their irishlaw04/20/17
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com /2017/04/whittiers-law-sc massivemissive04/20/17
At an interest rate that's twice my mortgage's. Wew, lad. I vulturelaw04/20/17
The funny thing is its admission classes are far better than karlmarx04/20/17
That may be true Karl, but how many of those schools should e36m304/20/17
Campos pointed out this fact and predicts that other small s adamb04/20/17
Nando's radio silence on this is strange. vohod04/20/17
he posted on the outside of lawl schhol scam triplesix04/20/17
I'm sure Nando will have something to say at some point; eve esqnever04/20/17
NandoApril 20, 2017 at 4:48 AM Excellent news! Reply triplesix04/20/17
Now LaVerne is going to dominate! But seriously, how long vulturelaw04/20/17
HAHA La Verne is a cesspool filled with incompetent mouth br cocolawyer04/21/17
Kind of sad, this is an article that the law school itself anonattempt04/20/17
You know times have changed when pretty much everyone on TLS 6figuremistake04/20/17
Excellent news. I bet my Alma Mater will be the next to go. subprimejd04/20/17
From Slate: "A few years ago, Steven Davidoff Solomon, a ichininosan04/20/17
I'm so happy. I went to Whittier college and I know Whittier confused1l9304/21/17
I had a twinge of sympathy for the students until I watched barelylegal04/21/17
lol, what a train wreck. Did I hear them say they have 4L st perkinwarbeck04/21/17
Yeah based on the conduct and comments of the students in th warfrat04/21/17
This video becomes something out of the movie "...And Justic parlance04/23/17
This is awesome. These kids should not be lawyers. bigsal04/21/17
LOL. "Baghdad Bob" Diamond is at it again! http://stephe 6figuremistake04/22/17
Diamond is probably worried that his own utility might come ichininosan04/23/17
He pulled an "argumentum ad hitlerium" by invoking Trump and dupednontraditional04/23/17
While it would be great if this turns out to just be the fir trickydick04/23/17
In California, they could close six law schools and still ha parlance04/23/17
Florida is terrible as well. I think there are 11 or 12 law downwardslope04/23/17
http://cosamesacomet.clonezone.link /whittier-not-closing loser1204/23/17
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_ blog/2017/04/100-students karlmarx04/24/17
I think the students should be entitled to a refund and clea clocker104/24/17

justrmor (Apr 19, 2017 - 4:41 pm)

Dean told Whittier Law School students who were just told their school is closing to submit questions via email. Finals are in one week.

https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/854793777457778689

Statement from Law School:

https://www.law.whittier.edu/index/news/article/whittier-college-board-of-trustees-ends-program-of-legal-education-at-whitt

Reply
passportfan3 (Apr 19, 2017 - 4:45 pm)

The 49 faculty members will move directly to 49 million-dollar jobs at top firms.

Reply
justrmor (Apr 19, 2017 - 4:50 pm)

It sounds like the faculty is attempting to sue to keep the school open. So, maybe those million dollar jobs at top firms are a little tougher to get.

Reply
triplesix (Apr 19, 2017 - 4:45 pm)

This is great, we got a first true casualty. Beautiful.

Reply
jackiechiles (Apr 19, 2017 - 11:28 pm)

Didn't Indiana Tech close?

Reply
adamb (Apr 20, 2017 - 7:52 am)

They were never a true skool.

Reply
causatape (Apr 20, 2017 - 10:57 am)

Bite your tongue. andre douglas pond cummings was Interim Dean there.

https://law.indianatech.edu/staff/faculty/cummings/

Reply
e36m3 (Apr 19, 2017 - 4:52 pm)

This makes me very happy. Finally a dump that has been conning kids for years out of time and money is closing. Here's hoping many more follow.

Reply
kretan182 (Apr 19, 2017 - 4:54 pm)

Excellent news, the casualties keep mounting.

Reply
adamb (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:46 pm)

Not fast enough. It's been five years since the air raid sirens started blaring. And only a handful of closures. If a T2-3 closes, I believe that catastrophe will be much more impactful.

But most skools want to keep admitting huge classes of unqualified applicants in order to keep milking the system for as long as possible. It still make me angry despite my survival (barely and so far).

Reply
doublefriedchicken (Apr 19, 2017 - 4:59 pm)

It would be nicer if they just had closed the school to give their poor students an option of being able to discharge their loans.

Reply
triplesix (Apr 19, 2017 - 6:05 pm)

Faculty gets paid first as a senior secured creditor. Repeat that until internlaized.

Reply
adamb (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:47 pm)

Would a student get a refund on the debt from a closed school if she transferred elsewhere to finish the degree?

Reply
wolfman (Apr 19, 2017 - 5:26 pm)

Very happy. No sympathy for anyone except maybe the practice/skills/writing faculty and the lower-paid librarians/staff, and, first and foremost, the students - but they really should have known better in 2014-2017.

MOAR. FASTER. Jail the scamdeans. Cut off the federal student loans $$$ from the dean/administrator/tenured "doctrinal" fake scholars pig trough. They contribute NOTHING to society on any level whatsoever.

Oh, and when you try to follow the link to the law school's website it's all like: "An Error Was Encountered. Site Error: Unable to Load Site Preferences; No Preferences Found." What does that remind you of? Just like a shady money transfer/title loan business run by unshaven doods with fake names that has FINALLY been busted by the feds - but 100 times more insidious and destructive. If only one day we could see the scamdeans in handcuffs dragged out of buildings by federal agents, all the while screeching inhumanly in a pidgin language (maybe law-review-ese?) If only...

EDIT: site is back up now. Most "enlightening" reading... My comparison stands, however.

Reply
trickydick (Apr 19, 2017 - 5:54 pm)

Good riddance.

Reply
ichininosan (Apr 19, 2017 - 5:57 pm)

This is long overdue. By my count, only three law schools have closed during the sustained drought in applications -- Hamline (which technically merged into William Mitchell), Indiana Tech, and now Whittier, which is one of the worst offenders in the ABA-sanctioned license to ruin young lives. Let's hope other universities see the writing on the wall: these schools are a needless drain on resources with no hope of returning to the glory of the pre-transparency gravy train.

Reply
trickydick (Apr 19, 2017 - 6:15 pm)

Not at all surprising that the dominoes begin to fall in California, and in Orange County in particular. There is not one law school in OC that is necessary or even defensible.

Reply
vulturelaw (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:44 pm)

Cooley's Ann Arbor franchise closed.

Reply
flharfh (Apr 19, 2017 - 6:17 pm)

"Accordingly, on April 15, 2017 the Board voted not to enroll new 1L classes at the Law School beginning this fall. We are committed to ensuring that students currently enrolled will have an opportunity to complete their degree in a timely fashion. At the appropriate time, the program of legal education will be discontinued."

So it sounds like the school will remain open for the next two years to allow the classes of 2018 and 2019 to graduate.

I bet the law school was hemorrhaging money to such an extent that it would have bankrupted the larger university (which has less than 2,000 students) if it wasn't closed.

Reply
6figuremistake (Apr 19, 2017 - 8:14 pm)

Excellent news. I'll bet back in the day the LS was a cash cow for the university, but now that it's a drain, it has been cast aside like a Whittier law grad's resume. I hope this move emboldens other universities to cut the cord. This is the first real scalp - Hamline merged, Indiana Tech never really got up and running, and Charlotte is hanging on for dear life. I'm glad I was able to witness this moment.

Reply
vohod (Apr 19, 2017 - 8:39 pm)

Now that there is a "first" the trustees of many of these u-affiliates LSs will itch towards closing.

Reply
anotherjd (Apr 19, 2017 - 9:48 pm)

"You won't have Whittier to kick around anymore."

Reply
cacrimdefense (Apr 19, 2017 - 10:58 pm)

I'm old enough to get that joke. In fairness to Tricky Dick, however, he attended law school at Duke.

Reply
trickydick (Apr 19, 2017 - 11:04 pm)

Right on. He did undergrad at Whittier College in Whittier, California where he grew up but was otherwise completely unassociated with this train wreck. Please don't sully President Nixon's name.

Reply
massivemissive (Apr 19, 2017 - 10:29 pm)

Lots of adjuncts there. I thought there was an ABA rule that limited how many adjuncts a school could have.

Reply
shuntiii (Apr 19, 2017 - 10:33 pm)

I actually considered going there.

Reply
guyingorillasuit (Apr 19, 2017 - 11:40 pm)

Congratulations, folks. This sets a precedent. Hopefully, other law school boards will make the same decision.

Reply
newsolo (Apr 20, 2017 - 8:17 am)

Several tenured faculty have already sued to enjoin the closure.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2017/04/tenured-faculty-sue-to-stop-closure-of-whittier-law-school.html

They must really love teaching. If I was in their position I'd simply take that million dollar big law partnership and never look back.

Reply
vohod (Apr 20, 2017 - 8:34 am)

Expect fanatical lawsuits henceforth. They know their $1m mortgages and BMW leases are donezo if they need new work. As shown by the prawfs in the Hamline merger, indy tech, and the buyouts.

Reply
municipald1 (Apr 20, 2017 - 10:37 am)

A TRO was filed on 4/18. It's interesting. Basically the law professors accuse the school of siphoning all money away from the law school, selling the campus, and then pulling the plug on the school.

No mention of the 25% pass rate or the even lower (!) employment numbers. They do say that announcing the closure in April kills any chance of new enrollees in the fall.

Check it out. -- there's a link to it in the LGM comments.

Reply
3lol (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:16 pm)

Wouldn't logic dictate that the LTFT employment numbers could be no higher than the bar passage rate?

Reply
triplesix (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:26 pm)

I have no doubt the shcool did that but the people scammed are not profs but rather the students. I don't understand what grounds those shysters have to be treated senior secured creditors but it seems every time they are not shoot with the school they quickly sue. WTF is this is?

Reply
irishlaw (Apr 20, 2017 - 11:56 pm)

Are law professors sophisticated enough buyers to know their job is a scam?

Reply
massivemissive (Apr 20, 2017 - 8:58 am)

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/04/whittiers-law-school-shutting

"The 89% of 2016 graduates with law school debt took out an average of $179,056 in federal loans while in law school, which means that with accrued interest and origination fees they had well over $200,000 in law school debt alone at graduation."

Wow.

Reply
vulturelaw (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:50 pm)

At an interest rate that's twice my mortgage's. Wew, lad. I can't imagine the financial strain these kids must deal with. IBR for 25 years. Basically living like a college student even though you make $80k or so.

These criminals, and the people who enable them, should be in jail.

Reply
karlmarx (Apr 20, 2017 - 9:28 am)

The funny thing is its admission classes are far better than almost 20 to 30 other schools.

Reply
e36m3 (Apr 20, 2017 - 9:45 am)

That may be true Karl, but how many of those schools should remain open?

Reply
adamb (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:42 pm)

Campos pointed out this fact and predicts that other small school admins may feel more comfortable with "cutting the cord" on law schools that lose money for the main university.

Reply
vohod (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:35 pm)

Nando's radio silence on this is strange.

Reply
triplesix (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:36 pm)

he posted on the outside of lawl schhol scam

Reply
esqnever (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:52 pm)

I'm sure Nando will have something to say at some point; even though I rarely "scam blog" these days, here's my take for what it's worth:

http://esqnever.blogspot.com/2017/04/we-have-scalp-whittier-laws-last-stand.html

Reply
triplesix (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:58 pm)

NandoApril 20, 2017 at 4:48 AM

Excellent news!
Reply

http://outsidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/2017/04/whittier-law-school-closing.html#comment-form

Reply
vulturelaw (Apr 20, 2017 - 2:51 pm)

Now LaVerne is going to dominate!

But seriously, how long will it take for Charlotte, Phoenix Summit, Golden Gate, or Cooley to die?

Reply
cocolawyer (Apr 21, 2017 - 4:48 pm)

HAHA La Verne is a cesspool filled with incompetent mouth breathers.They should have closed that school down a long long long time ago.

Cooley is on its slow ride to death. There average entering LSAT score is 141.

Reply
anonattempt (Apr 20, 2017 - 3:16 pm)

Kind of sad, this is an article that the law school itself recently published as a puff piece:

"Nearly 70% of Whittier Law School 2011 Graduates Employed 15 Months After Graduation"

https://www.law.whittier.edu/index/news/article/nearly-70-of-whittier-law-school-2011-graduates-employed-15-months-after-gr

Shrewd move when the percentage of your graduates employed JD-required jobs 9 months after graduation is 21%...

https://www.law.whittier.edu/index/career-and-professional-development/employment-statistics/

Reply
6figuremistake (Apr 20, 2017 - 3:40 pm)

You know times have changed when pretty much everyone on TLS agrees this is a good thing and that at least 50 or so more schools should follow in its wake:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=276828

Reply
subprimejd (Apr 20, 2017 - 4:55 pm)

Excellent news. I bet my Alma Mater will be the next to go. TJSLol

Reply
ichininosan (Apr 20, 2017 - 6:22 pm)

From Slate:

"A few years ago, Steven Davidoff Solomon, a law professor at the University of California-Berkeley who contributes to the New York Times, made a small bet with me that no accredited law schools would go under before 2018. He argued in part that universities would prefer to keep even ailing law schools open and generating revenue rather than shut them down and leave their expensive facilities empty."

Apparently, you can sell expensive facilities.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2017/04/20/a_law_school_is_finally_closing.html

Reply
confused1l93 (Apr 21, 2017 - 2:04 am)

I'm so happy. I went to Whittier college and I know Whittier has been having financial troubles for some time now. There is no way they can support the law school. Sharon herzerberger is pretty much pure evil.

Reply
barelylegal (Apr 21, 2017 - 9:01 pm)

I had a twinge of sympathy for the students until I watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMGoUXR3EUA

Reply
perkinwarbeck (Apr 21, 2017 - 9:41 pm)

lol, what a train wreck. Did I hear them say they have 4L students? What suckers.

Reply
warfrat (Apr 21, 2017 - 10:09 pm)

Yeah based on the conduct and comments of the students in this video it is clear why the school closed.

Reply
parlance (Apr 23, 2017 - 12:01 pm)

This video becomes something out of the movie "...And Justice for All"

Reply
bigsal (Apr 21, 2017 - 11:44 pm)

This is awesome. These kids should not be lawyers.

Reply
6figuremistake (Apr 22, 2017 - 11:14 am)

LOL. "Baghdad Bob" Diamond is at it again!

http://stephen-diamond.com/2017/04/21/whittiers-big-mistake/

You see, Whittier Law was just on the cusp of greatness when the board of trustees pulled the plug. 25% bar passage rate? What does that matter when Diamond's self-serving, back-of-the-envelope calculations PROVE that Whittier grads are going to be rolling in the dough?

Reply
ichininosan (Apr 23, 2017 - 3:55 pm)

Diamond is probably worried that his own utility might come into question. As this article notes, average to below-average colleges are coming under their own financial pressures from declining enrollment. https://www.forbes.com/sites/ccap/2017/04/21/the-first-law-school-casualty-more-to-come/#7eb4a3cc82ec


If the university has a fourth tier law school bleeding additional funds from it, these universities are going to see cutting the law school as a natural move. Not having look at it's finances, I doubt Santa Clara falls into this category, but Diamond is pretty nervous Nellie anytime anybody questions the utility of attending any law school with bad employment outcomes for its graduates.

Reply
dupednontraditional (Apr 23, 2017 - 4:22 pm)

He pulled an "argumentum ad hitlerium" by invoking Trump and went on about how the legal market has been improving over the last five years.

Definitely the analysis of someone with no skin in the game.

Reply
trickydick (Apr 23, 2017 - 12:20 am)

While it would be great if this turns out to just be the first domino to fall, there are several details that serve to make this possibly just a fluke.

Whittier College is itself not in a strong position. It costs $50,000.00 per year to attend the college, which means a degree from Whittier costs $200,000.00. That's about 10 times the cost of a comparable degree from nearby Cal State L.A. and there's little reason to believe a degree from Whittier is worth the massive difference in costs.

Given the position that the college is in, it makes sense that its trustees would want to ditch the added liability the underperforming law school brings.

Looking ahead, fourth rate colleges with poorly performing law schools may want to emulate this decision because they have something to lose by keeping such law schools open.

But stand alone law schools have nothing to gain and everything to lose by deciding to shut down. Odds are they will do whatever it takes to keep their heads above water, no matter how far beyond the scope of basic human decency they need to go.

Reply
parlance (Apr 23, 2017 - 11:47 am)

In California, they could close six law schools and still have a problem. That state, more than any other, represents what is wrong with the state of legal education today. Future law school candidates are now only incrementally safer from being snookered.

As for the students who were there, obviously I feel for them. Anyone who takes out loans or pays for tuition and shows up to class in good faith, only to be told before they graduate that the law school as an entity is finished, has a particularly painful setback to cope with. At least when you graduate you have a degree you can put on your resume.

But I've learned that the economy no longer cares (if it ever did) that you are in school and in the process of a career investment. If the economic realities become severe enough, the heartless market forces will set in and strike down your law school like it's nothing. Sometimes, that's just life.

Reply
downwardslope (Apr 23, 2017 - 9:28 pm)

Florida is terrible as well. I think there are 11 or 12 law schools now and the bar passage rates published are only first-time. Probably when you take into account retakers these days, it's around 1/3. With how poorly Florida Coastal is doing now, it's only going to get worse. The last bar passage rate was just abysmal. Tuition + fees are over $46K now. I just can't see the school staying afloat for more than a couple more years, and then Florida also has a branch of Cooley as well. Their passage rates aren't published since they aren't an "in-state" law school.

Reply
loser12 (Apr 23, 2017 - 6:28 pm)

http://cosamesacomet.clonezone.link/whittier-not-closing

Reply
karlmarx (Apr 24, 2017 - 9:34 am)

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2017/04/100-students-protest-closure-of-whittier-law-school.html


Special snowflakes protest!

Reply
clocker1 (Apr 24, 2017 - 2:27 pm)

I think the students should be entitled to a refund and clean slate that they never attended this scam school.

Reply
Post a message in this thread