Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

recruiters for NYC ID firms

I've dealt with Wilson Elser recruiters before. Do other re prestiiigiousone04/24/17
There are a handful of firms with notorious reputations that mrtor04/25/17
Is Wilson Elser appreciably worse to work for than the other prestiiigiousone04/25/17
It's impossible to say as it varies from firm to firm. Some mrtor04/25/17
"There are better opportunities out there, unless you simply prestiiigiousone04/25/17
I'll let a NYC member chime in. Generally speaking, firms re mrtor04/25/17
You aren't wrong, but my question is more along the lines of prestiiigiousone04/25/17
KBR is constantly advertising for positions like Wilson Else fuckup04/25/17
Based on general convos with some Wilson Elser attorneys, it attorneyinct04/27/17
Terrible compared to Biglaw, but Wilson Elser attorneys can' prestiiigiousone04/28/17
now Wilson Elser wants to interview me. Great. prestiiigiousone05/02/17
You seemed to be defending the firm before. See what they ha mrtor05/02/17
Not really defending them. More like asking if anyone knows prestiiigiousone05/02/17
Keep your options open - beggars cannot be choosers. And if adamb05/02/17
I've written about WEMED before, just search my old posts go associatex05/05/17
Any idea about Segal McCambridge or Zarwin Baum (not sure if loblawyer05/06/17
Not familiar w those firms. associatex05/08/17
Thanks associate-x. I am definitely wary of Wilson Elser. prestiiigiousone05/08/17
Of course. If you know Associates or Partners at these firms associatex05/08/17
If I knew anyone at those firms I'd have already contacted t prestiiigiousone05/08/17
have you heard anything about Gordon and Silber? prestiiigiousone05/09/17
I interviewed at Gordon & Silber (~ 12 yrs ago) and worked w associatex05/09/17

prestiiigiousone (Apr 24, 2017 - 7:54 pm)

I've dealt with Wilson Elser recruiters before. Do other recruiters work with big ID firms like KBR or Lewis Brisbois? Or do they just accept applications from attorneys themselves?

Also, if anyone has any insight as to whether Wilson Elser really is as bad to work for as its rep...

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mrtor (Apr 25, 2017 - 9:25 am)

There are a handful of firms with notorious reputations that precede them. Wilson Elser is foremost among them. I've never seen anyone contest Wilson Elser's branding as a low-paying, high hour ID mill with tremendous turnover. If you're a sadist who enjoys working over living, you may succeed there. Likewise, if you have a desperate and obsessively unhealthy desire to claim you work for a "big" law firm (not true BigLaw, although conveniently misleading), it may also be a good fit.

Otherwise, the firm use and abuse you until you burn out and quit.

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prestiiigiousone (Apr 25, 2017 - 10:45 am)

Is Wilson Elser appreciably worse to work for than the other big ID firms?

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mrtor (Apr 25, 2017 - 10:54 am)

It's impossible to say as it varies from firm to firm. Some firms are better, others are every bit as bad (might even be a few which are worse), and the rest are somewhere in between. It's all about balance. You need to figure out how much you're willing to work and for what price. Wilson Elser is a one-two punch of low pay and high hours. There are better opportunities out there, unless you simply want to brag about working for a "big" (though not BigLaw) law firm.

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prestiiigiousone (Apr 25, 2017 - 10:58 am)

"There are better opportunities out there, unless you simply want to brag about working for a "big" (though not BigLaw) law firm"

what are those better opportunities, if you're doing ID in the NYC area?

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mrtor (Apr 25, 2017 - 11:07 am)

I'll let a NYC member chime in. Generally speaking, firms recruiting regularly are a red flag (i.e. Wilson Elser's nationwide revolving ad). Frequent recruiting signals high turn over, which is often a reflection of the work and work environment. If you have classmates or colleagues around NYC, ask them which firms they highly regard. It's usually no secret. Bare in mind that it can take years for there to be openings with the best firms, with many limiting hiring to summer associates/law clerks (whom they can vet and shape) and refusing to consider experienced attorneys (w/o impressive, portable books of business) altogether.

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prestiiigiousone (Apr 25, 2017 - 11:44 am)

You aren't wrong, but my question is more along the lines of how Wilson Elser compares to similar firms. People considering Wilson Elser don't really have access to the "best firms".

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fuckup (Apr 25, 2017 - 4:09 pm)

KBR is constantly advertising for positions like Wilson Elser does. I don't see Lewis Brisbois as much

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attorneyinct (Apr 27, 2017 - 8:27 pm)

Based on general convos with some Wilson Elser attorneys, it really depends on the partners. If the partners like you, any job becomes much easier. They do, however, pay their attorneys a terrible salary.

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prestiiigiousone (Apr 28, 2017 - 12:51 pm)

Terrible compared to Biglaw, but Wilson Elser attorneys can't sniff Biglaw.

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prestiiigiousone (May 2, 2017 - 11:44 am)

now Wilson Elser wants to interview me. Great.

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mrtor (May 2, 2017 - 11:59 am)

You seemed to be defending the firm before. See what they have to say.

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prestiiigiousone (May 2, 2017 - 7:09 pm)

Not really defending them. More like asking if anyone knows how they compare to the other larger ID firms - like are they really as bad as the rep

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adamb (May 2, 2017 - 1:30 pm)

Keep your options open - beggars cannot be choosers. And if you are like me and not an HSY grad and Supreme Court clerk - you are a beggar in this saturated market - particularly in NYC.

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associatex (May 5, 2017 - 5:00 pm)

I've written about WEMED before, just search my old posts going all the way back to 2007. I've interviewed there 2 or 3x also. The posters above are correct - the GL practice groups are very much "work you to the bone and then spit you out" albeit I know 1 guy who became a Partner in another practice group who fared slightly better (and even he left to start his own firm after making partner).

Other good firms (ID wise) you want to look at: Rivkin Radler, Lewis Brisbois, Clausen Miller (off the top of my head, I know people at all these 3 firms and previously interviewed at RR). I can prob share more info on specific firms if they're mentioned.

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loblawyer (May 6, 2017 - 2:30 pm)

Any idea about Segal McCambridge or Zarwin Baum (not sure if that one is really ID, but they seem heavy on litigation)?

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associatex (May 8, 2017 - 12:50 am)

Not familiar w those firms.

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prestiiigiousone (May 8, 2017 - 11:11 am)

Thanks associate-x. I am definitely wary of Wilson Elser. I probably wouldn't go there even for a salary bump from my current firm. Too many horror stories.

I have heard good things about those other firms too. I think I sent a resume to Lewis Brisbois a couple years ago and never heard anything. They also always have ads up on careerbuilder but I figure with these more respectable firms it's better to try to make contacts and network. Openings seem to have so many applicants so you really need an "in". Does that seem right?

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associatex (May 8, 2017 - 5:17 pm)

Of course. If you know Associates or Partners at these firms already - you are ahead of the curve. My firm hired 3 ex-associates from my first law firm which is why my resume got immediate attention - and sometimes when you see a posting for an attorney job on a firm's web site, it doesn't necessarily mean they are actively looking. Like civil service, they could already have someone in mind but feel obligated to put an ad in the AmLaw/NYLJ or their web site just to cast a wider net (a better candidate) or make current associates feel on edge about their long term prospects. This is why job hunting sucks so much for entry level attorneys. Once you get your foot in somewhere, the rest irons itself out. After 5 years - its all about who you know, especially in the "trenches" of low end litigation (ID, PI, small claims, etc).

Typically, the better a firm is, the lower the turn-over. I worked at one firm where they hired a new attorney only 1x every 5-8 years and usually it was to replace someone who left. My firm hasn't hired anyone new since 2011. No one wants to leave my firm because the pay/benefits are great compared to the hours we have to work (ie by 6 pm my office is a ghost-town). If my firm has to replace someone who leaves, my boss will immediately hold an office meeting and announce the opening, then ask anyone here if they know people who are interested in applying.

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prestiiigiousone (May 8, 2017 - 6:17 pm)

If I knew anyone at those firms I'd have already contacted them...I met a woman at a happy hour about six months ago and she was with a friend who worked for Lewis Brisbois, but unfortunately I barely talked to the friend so I didn't get her info.

I should make more contacts though it is hard to figure out a great way to do that.

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prestiiigiousone (May 9, 2017 - 1:32 pm)

have you heard anything about Gordon and Silber?

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associatex (May 9, 2017 - 3:07 pm)

I interviewed at Gordon & Silber (~ 12 yrs ago) and worked with 1 former attorney who was a paralegal there. It is a respectable small firm. There is a bit of turnover though which I gather could be to either lack of partnership opportunities or because raises are crappy.

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