Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Whittier Law School to shut its doors next spring...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news /2017/06/28/law-schools-h dharamsala06/28/17
“We were completely caught off guard,” Kristopher Escobe sjlawyer06/28/17
Was this the school where some episodes of 90210 were filmed cranky06/28/17
I prolly would with the other atty mentioned here. https: bigsal06/28/17
3LOL, concurring 3lol06/28/17
We need to start a running list... I have been waiting for t triplesix06/28/17
Overall, a good article, but still have to throw in some LS 6figuremistake06/28/17
"(Not to mention that plenty of those who do end up in attor dharamsala06/29/17
You've just graduated from law school and haven't even passe trickydick06/29/17
Everyone I've spoken to who has clerked (including those who dharamsala06/29/17
Someone who has been practicing for decades graduated into a trickydick06/29/17
"Everyone I've spoken to who has clerked (including those wh wutwutwut06/29/17
My judge told me that he has a 100% track record of getting dharamsala06/29/17
Glad to hear it. wutwutwut06/29/17
My point isn't so much that a clerkship won't lead to a bett 6figuremistake06/29/17
6figs, if anything you're still giving them too much benefit wutwutwut06/29/17
dharamsala (Jun 28, 2017 - 1:25 pm)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/06/28/law-schools-hunkering-down-enrollment-slips/430213001/

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sjlawyer (Jun 28, 2017 - 1:52 pm)

“We were completely caught off guard,” Kristopher Escobedo, a second-year student and incoming student body president at the Costa Mesa, Calif., school, told the Los Angeles Times. “It was almost like an ambush.”

lolwut?

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cranky (Jun 28, 2017 - 2:28 pm)

Was this the school where some episodes of 90210 were filmed? Good riddance to another bottom tier law school. California only needs 2 or 3 law schools.

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bigsal (Jun 28, 2017 - 2:28 pm)

I prolly would with the other atty mentioned here.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cristina-messerschmidt-29947a8b

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3lol (Jun 28, 2017 - 2:57 pm)

3LOL, concurring

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triplesix (Jun 28, 2017 - 2:42 pm)

We need to start a running list... I have been waiting for this for better part of the decade haha

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6figuremistake (Jun 28, 2017 - 3:55 pm)

Overall, a good article, but still have to throw in some LS propaganda:

"Overall, the job picture for law school graduates remains comparatively healthy. The class of 2015’s employment rate is 86.7%, according to October 2016 findings by the Washington, D.C.-based National Association for Law Placement."

87% of grads may be employed, but not necessarily as attorneys. At just about any non-elite school, you're looking at least a third of class ending up in non-law roles (or unemployed) after 10 months. (Not to mention that plenty of those who do end up in attorney positions are working in state clerkships or small firms - hardly a great ROI on 3 years and $200k in loans.)

Plus, they give a scam admin at shot at spinning the declining demand for attorneys:

"It’s actually 'a great time' to go into the legal profession, he said. 'From my perspective, it is an especially exciting time to be part of the legal industry, because I think it is changing more significantly and more rapidly than at any time in anyone’s memory.'"

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dharamsala (Jun 29, 2017 - 12:29 pm)

"(Not to mention that plenty of those who do end up in attorney positions are working in state clerkships or small firms - hardly a great ROI on 3 years and $200k in loans.)"

State clerkships are a great way to start your career. They're practically a pre-requisite for entering the NJ legal market.

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trickydick (Jun 29, 2017 - 12:50 pm)

You've just graduated from law school and haven't even passed the bar yet. You're not in a position to give career advice. If you're practicing law in five years, then your advice might be worth at least your net worth at that point.

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dharamsala (Jun 29, 2017 - 12:53 pm)

Everyone I've spoken to who has clerked (including those who have been in practice for decades) has raved about the experience.

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trickydick (Jun 29, 2017 - 1:00 pm)

Someone who has been practicing for decades graduated into a completely different legal market than you did, bear that in mind.

At any rate, my point isn't about the value of a clerkship, it's about the fact that someone who is asking for career advice isn't in a position to dispense it.

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wutwutwut (Jun 29, 2017 - 1:11 pm)

"Everyone I've spoken to who has clerked (including those who have been in practice for decades) has raved about the experience."


In addition to TD's point, though, and almost by default, the lawyers and judges you are speaking to are those who had a good outcome following their clerkship.

Those who couldn't get a job as a lawyer thereafter? How many of them have you spoken with?

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dharamsala (Jun 29, 2017 - 1:15 pm)

My judge told me that he has a 100% track record of getting his clerks employed at the conclusion of the clerkship, so I'm all set.

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wutwutwut (Jun 29, 2017 - 1:17 pm)

Glad to hear it.

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6figuremistake (Jun 29, 2017 - 1:11 pm)

My point isn't so much that a clerkship won't lead to a better position - I've heard of mixed results. It's more that law schools sell their programs (and considerable price tags) on the idea that three years of law school will give you a considerable advantage in your professional life, yet if all you get out of law school is a clerkship that pays what - $40-50k? - I wouldn't call that a great ROI - even if it leads to some $60kish small law job afterwards.

Four to five years of work experience would likely put you in the same position (in terms of salary) and you wouldn't have the debt, would have been able to save for retirement, and would likely yield greater flexibility in your career both in terms of location and industry.

Six figures of debt + 3 years of law schools + 1 or more years of low paid "learning on the job" LESS any other opportunity costs is a very poor proposition for anyone who would be remotely happy doing anything other than being practicing attorney.

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wutwutwut (Jun 29, 2017 - 1:17 pm)

6figs, if anything you're still giving them too much benefit of the doubt (in ref to your 3:55 comment yesterday). Overall lawyer jobs for the graduates we have most recent data on indicate it's just over 60%.

Cut out the T20 schools and that number drops farther.

And this other quote in the story is pure fantasy:

"About two-thirds of 2015 graduates landed jobs that actually required passing a bar exam...."

There is no data supporting this. I think the author mistakenly conflates JD-preferred and JD-required.

And we know how malleable (and manipulable) the so-called "JD-preferred" bucket is.

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