Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Njlap

Hey, does anyone know how long it takes to go through the NJ dharamsala08/14/17
I would imagine it's completely dependent on the issue that' retard08/15/17
I went through this process in 2009, and I know a number of psusurf08/15/17
My issues are: 1) mental illness 2) got fired from a job dharamsala08/15/17
Mental illness is going to be your biggest hurdle. Not insur retard08/15/17
My diagnoses are PTSD and Depression. I thought mental illn dharamsala08/15/17
Extremely. But once you are in the club you are in the club. retard08/15/17
How much of a delay should I anticipate? I follow my treatm dharamsala08/15/17
184 days. Just kidding. I have no idea. It's so case dep retard08/15/17
Getting fired is a non-issue, though the reason for the firi dingbat08/15/17
I got fired because I volunteered to help out on the Board o dharamsala08/15/17
The firing may indicate poor judgment, but you can spin it f dingbat08/15/17
I agree. The legal profession is extremely stressful and fro retard08/16/17
Am I likely to get a 303 hearing? How many people get rejec dharamsala08/16/17
Pretty unlikely she got fired for that. She's not even a la karlfarbman08/17/17
That was the only reason I was fired. It was a paid fellowsh dharamsala08/17/17
It sounds like you're a crazy dharma. I'd suggest gettin isthisit08/16/17
Currently my mom is acting as my psychiatrist/therapist. Wi dharamsala08/16/17
Holy sht. I would totally ding you. If she's a licensed dingbat08/16/17
I won't have insurance/benefits for the first 60 days of my dharamsala08/16/17
There is no law, but many Medical Associations bar it except thirdtierlaw08/16/17
Yes, my mom's diagnosis is different than my previous treati dharamsala08/16/17
Obamacare care or pay out of pocket. Or ask your mom to have retard08/16/17
You need to stop getting treatment from your mom right now, dingbat08/16/17
I'm telling you, this is just temporary, until my insurance dharamsala08/17/17
That's much less of a problem than being treated by your mot pauperesq08/17/17
People get dinged by C&F for bad credit. My credit score is dharamsala08/17/17
As i told you, my mom is just treating me temporarily until dharamsala08/16/17
So if you don't mind me asking, if therapy did nothing for y retard08/16/17
I don't know. I'm super depressed and feel like I've accompl dharamsala08/16/17
Go seek objective professional help. I guarantee that using dingbat08/17/17
I've seen other psychiatrists/therapists. They don't help. dharamsala08/17/17
Does she prescribe you medicine? karlfarbman08/17/17
currently another doc does. But she prescribes me a differen dharamsala08/17/17
that sentence alone should raise numerous red flags dingbat08/18/17
Dharma are you trolling? isthisit08/17/17
No. My mom disagrees with my psychiatrists diagnosis so she dharamsala08/17/17
Ummm, please say this is flame? Your mother is treating you, retard08/17/17
Yes she prescribes another med, so I am taking two meds. dharamsala08/17/17
Now I'm confused. I thought you said you were only using you thirdtierlaw08/17/17
No. Doc 1(who I stopped seeing this month because my school dharamsala08/17/17
she CLEARLY has bad judgment if she's treating you and presc dingbat08/18/17
I've had more therapists than you can shake a stick at. The dharamsala08/17/17
It sounds like you are not going to be able to demonstrate t retard08/17/17
Maybe TMS will help. Therapy is worthless. dharamsala08/17/17
maybe seeing a mental health professional WHO IS NOT YOUR MO dingbat08/18/17
After reviewing the information you posted and given my own trickydick08/17/17
People with multiple DUIs and domestic violence get through dharamsala08/17/17
Yes, people with criminal convictions pass C&F all the time, trickydick08/17/17
I'm doing the best I can to resolve the issues. I see a the dharamsala08/17/17
You should stop comparing yourself to other people and other trickydick08/17/17
I am adequately treating my mental health. Despite the issue dharamsala08/17/17
Are you at least attractive? If so, lose the weight and find isthisit08/17/17
Thanks but no thanks. Your opinion is baseless. People wit dharamsala08/17/17
If you already have the counsel of an experienced C&F attorn isthisit08/17/17
It was just a free consult. I haven't retained anyone yet. dharamsala08/17/17
Are you getting extra time for the bar exam? imoothereforeim08/17/17
I was denied because I got a 164 on the LSAT without accommo dharamsala08/17/17
You have plenty of time to prepare. I'd say good luck but I imoothereforeim08/17/17
Thanks! Unfortunately I'll be working full time as a Judici dharamsala08/17/17
the february bar is not harder, the examinees are generally dingbat08/18/17
Haha this is like basic bar study info. Sometimes I can't b karlfarbman08/18/17
Why would someone set up an elaborate, years-long flame? wutwutwut08/18/17
See e.g. TheImmigrant 3lol08/18/17
You do realize how exceedingly rare it is to get rejected by dharamsala08/17/17
Yes, and after having been exposed to a wide variety of C&F trickydick08/17/17
The overwhelming majority of attorneys struggle with mental dharamsala08/17/17
See my post above. You need to stop comparing yourself to ot trickydick08/17/17
Look, I have a JD. I have a clerkship lined up that I start dharamsala08/17/17
I'm going to offer some words or advice. Do not qualify any thirdtierlaw08/17/17
I understand. It's just incredibly presumptuous and prejudic dharamsala08/17/17
Okay opal, everyone gets it: you're a superstar-in-waiting. pauperesq08/17/17
What can I do to alleviate the board's concerns? I plan to dharamsala08/17/17
Stop getting treatment from your mother. Immediately. It's pauperesq08/18/17
This HAS to be roll bread, right? joshdoctson08/17/17
??? dharamsala08/17/17
The board will want independent corroboration of your mental guyingorillasuit08/17/17
My issues/struggles are that I'm depressed due to being sing dharamsala08/17/17
Actually, those are not your issues. A lot of people are dis guyingorillasuit08/18/17
nobody cares. seriously, nobody cares. What matters is dingbat08/18/17
When you meet with the character and fitness people, please thirdtierlaw08/18/17
I was 50-60 pounds heavier in law school. imoothereforeim08/18/17
Eh 29 isn't old. junkwired08/18/17
1) Get your sh*t sorted out before taking the bar exam. Solv flyer1408/18/17
All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit defensivelawyer08/18/17
You just need to get laid. You'll feel much better about you retard08/18/17
You clearly have no idea about the mechanics of depression. dharamsala08/18/17
Sexual intercourse releases chemicals that make you happy. retard08/18/17
That's just a quick fix. It won't provide lasting happiness dharamsala08/18/17
live in the moment wutwutwut08/18/17
get laid a lot? dingbat08/18/17
Did anyone choose to take the private provider route instead kmm042110/30/17
I'd like to use a private provider too. (No where near NJ a bodhicitta10/30/17
I found one in NJ for a hefty price. I'm just hoping this pr kmm042110/30/17
Why are you paying for a provider in NJ when NJLAP is free o dharamsala10/30/17
My job is on the line and I need this done as quickly and ef kmm042110/30/17
How much time is your employer giving you to get sworn in? dharamsala10/30/17
According to the NJLAP website, you may choose a private pro dharamsala10/30/17
There isn't a set date but they were hoping I would be sworn kmm042110/30/17
Did you tell them about the NJLAP referral? dharamsala10/30/17
Yeah. They know it's highly unlikely I'll be sworn in on tim kmm042110/31/17
Have you consulted with a C&F attorney about your chances? dharamsala11/01/17

dharamsala (Aug 14, 2017 - 10:38 pm)

Hey, does anyone know how long it takes to go through the NJLAP process if your NJ bar application has been flagged by C&F? What have people's experiences been like? I am sitting for the February 2018 exam and I anticipate problems.

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retard (Aug 15, 2017 - 9:40 am)

I would imagine it's completely dependent on the issue that's flagged and your subsequent responsiveness and candor.

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psusurf (Aug 15, 2017 - 3:18 pm)

I went through this process in 2009, and I know a number of people there fairly well. It all depends what you are going for. I got referred because I went to rehab in law school for alcohol (Been sober nine years). If being referred for substance problems, then preempt everything by getting all your records, and be prepared to show how you have rehabilitated yourself. I was referred in November of 2009 after I passed the bar, and admitted in April of 2010. You have to stay on top of them, because they have a ton of people coming through.

If you are being referred for something else, lack of candor, criminal record, etc., you need to make sure you have your story straight, and amend anything that is wrong. I actually forget when I applied to law school that I didn't disclose two stupid college arrests (public urination and public intoxication), and I amended my application. I never got called out on it. If you can fix things before they see it, you will be in a much better spot. If you fight the process tooth and nail, be prepared for a long wait. Just do what they ask, even if you think it is dumb.

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dharamsala (Aug 15, 2017 - 3:20 pm)

My issues are:

1) mental illness
2) got fired from a job
3.) academic discipline
4.) traffic tickets

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retard (Aug 15, 2017 - 5:03 pm)

Mental illness is going to be your biggest hurdle. Not insurmountable but it won't be fun.

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dharamsala (Aug 15, 2017 - 6:12 pm)

My diagnoses are PTSD and Depression. I thought mental illness was fairly common in the legal profession?

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retard (Aug 15, 2017 - 6:56 pm)

Extremely. But once you are in the club you are in the club. Getting in, however, with a documented history of mental illness and a demonstrated history of it adversely affecting your conduct (iirc your academic discipline was the result of an "episode") its much harder. It's likely not an auto no but you are going to have to put on a dog and pony show to establish you are diligently receiving treatment.

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dharamsala (Aug 15, 2017 - 7:52 pm)

How much of a delay should I anticipate? I follow my treatment plan.

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retard (Aug 15, 2017 - 8:11 pm)

184 days.

Just kidding. I have no idea. It's so case dependent.

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dingbat (Aug 15, 2017 - 9:25 pm)

Getting fired is a non-issue, though the reason for the firing might be.

Traffic tickets aren't an issue in and of themselves, but could be indicative of other issues. DUI could mean alcohol problems, weekly speeding tickets could indicate recklessness, etc.

Academic discipline depends on the issue. In your case, it's an indicator of mental health issues

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dharamsala (Aug 15, 2017 - 9:39 pm)

I got fired because I volunteered to help out on the Board of Directors of a 501(c)(3) non-profit operated by a prospective client, and my boss thought that this was a conflict of interest.

I got a speeding ticket in 2014 and 2016.

I was disciplined for calling a Dean an "insufferable bi*ch" over email and tagging the walls with crayon and lipstick.

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dingbat (Aug 15, 2017 - 11:17 pm)

The firing may indicate poor judgment, but you can spin it fairly easily into something simple. Just say you reviewed the situation and thought it was ok, but in hindsight realize you should have checked with your boss about any potential conflict and you now learned your lesson to always double-check and more thoroughly investigate potential conflicts

2 speeding tickets are nothing (unless you weee going 180 in a school zone, or something daft like that). Not even going to waste my time addressing this

Your problem is the disciplinary issue and the mental health thing. The disciplinary issue is probably easier to spin, but I can't advise you on mental health. Personally I probably would ding your application if it came across my desk. Maybe something about proper diagnosis and taking medication and regular therapy

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retard (Aug 16, 2017 - 2:31 am)

I agree. The legal profession is extremely stressful and from the perspective of a character and fitness committee, if law school pushed you over the edge, the actual practice of law might shove you off the cliff headfirst. Just show continued treatment and get strong references.

If I recall, you will be clerking, which often doesn't require admission. So you have all the time in the world.

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dharamsala (Aug 16, 2017 - 11:50 am)

Am I likely to get a 303 hearing? How many people get rejected each year?

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karlfarbman (Aug 17, 2017 - 1:36 pm)

Pretty unlikely she got fired for that. She's not even a lawyer and was volunteering. They would tell her to pick one or the other.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 3:27 pm)

That was the only reason I was fired. It was a paid fellowship.

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isthisit (Aug 16, 2017 - 12:49 pm)

It sounds like you're a crazy dharma.

I'd suggest getting your medical paperwork in order showing that you follow your treatment plan and since then have not had any major issues. You need to show how your mental illness no longer affects your day-to-day and professional life. A letter from your doctor would also help.

The rest is no big deal IMHO but I'm not a C&F attorney. And i didn't have any issue getting through NJ C&F. So this is all gut feeling.

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dharamsala (Aug 16, 2017 - 12:58 pm)

Currently my mom is acting as my psychiatrist/therapist. Will this be a problem?

Reply Like (0)
dingbat (Aug 16, 2017 - 1:22 pm)

Holy sht.

I would totally ding you. If she's a licensed mental health professional, I'd report her to the appropriate licensing authority too.

You should NEVER have a direct relative treat you for mental health issues

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dharamsala (Aug 16, 2017 - 1:34 pm)

I won't have insurance/benefits for the first 60 days of my job, so I have no choice but to be treated by her. Also, my hectic work schedule will prevent me from seeing anyone else (full time clerkship + bar study). Most psychiatrists/therapists don't have convenient weekend/evening hours.

What's wrong with her treating me? She's an MD. She is full credentialed. There is no law against treating your family members.

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thirdtierlaw (Aug 16, 2017 - 1:50 pm)

There is no law, but many Medical Associations bar it except for emergency and minor issues. We had a doctor in my State recently have his license suspended for prescribing medication to family members. His defense was that it was an emergency, the board did not buy it. Much like bar associations, each State has different rules, but I'd want to make sure I looked up my mother's licensing rules before, unnecessarily, putting her license at risk.

Also didn't you previous post that your mom's diagnosis was drastically different than your old treating psychiatrist?

You'll be pleasantly surprised by the number of therapists that have hours outside the typical 8:30-4:30.

Do you honestly not believe that the Character and Fitness people won't raise an eyebrow when they see that the person signing off on your mental fitness is your mother? Even if they don't just straight up ding you, it's going to warrant further investigation. Why make it harder on yourself?

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dharamsala (Aug 16, 2017 - 1:54 pm)

Yes, my mom's diagnosis is different than my previous treating psychiatrist. Unfortunately, I won't have insurance for the first 60 days of my job. I can't control that; it's an HR policy.

Of course I'll get a new psych once the insurance kicks in. It's just that I'll still be treated and receive therapy from my mom at the same time because she's nosy like that.

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retard (Aug 16, 2017 - 6:07 pm)

Obamacare care or pay out of pocket. Or ask your mom to have one of her colleagues do you a favor. The board isn't going to buy the busy schedule thing. Remember, they see applicants present continued treatment all the time. When the guy before you also worked and studied for the bar and managed to be treated it's going to be a bad look.

I am sorry to say this but in their eyes you are not a special snowflake with unique circumstances.

Also your mother's testimony or sworn statements on your behalf can easily be construed as impartial and self serving. That opens you up to rejection and her to a litany of b.s. she likely doesn't need.

Reply Like (0)
dingbat (Aug 16, 2017 - 10:44 pm)

You need to stop getting treatment from your mom right now, regardless of the bar situation.

That is very fcjed up

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 9:24 am)

I'm telling you, this is just temporary, until my insurance kicks in. It's an HR policy that insurance only starts after the first 60 days. I can't afford to pay out of pocket. Do you want me to get credit problems due to unpaid medical bills too?

Reply Like (0)
pauperesq (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:25 pm)

That's much less of a problem than being treated by your mother.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:28 pm)

People get dinged by C&F for bad credit. My credit score is in the upper 700s. I'd like to keep it that way.

Again, I disagree with my mom's diagnosis, but I've said before, it's TEMPORARY until my insurance kicks in. It's out of necessity. Judicial clerkships don't exactly pay a fortune.

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dharamsala (Aug 16, 2017 - 6:19 pm)

As i told you, my mom is just treating me temporarily until my insurance kicks in. Therapy had done nothing for me.

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retard (Aug 16, 2017 - 6:38 pm)

So if you don't mind me asking, if therapy did nothing for you then what helped you?

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dharamsala (Aug 16, 2017 - 6:54 pm)

I don't know. I'm super depressed and feel like I've accomplished nothing in life.

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dingbat (Aug 17, 2017 - 12:54 am)

Go seek objective professional help. I guarantee that using your mom as a psych will NOT make things better

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 9:22 am)

I've seen other psychiatrists/therapists. They don't help. I still have the same problems (single, overweight, unhappy with life in general, etc.)

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karlfarbman (Aug 17, 2017 - 11:13 am)

Does she prescribe you medicine?

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 11:52 am)

currently another doc does. But she prescribes me a different med.

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dingbat (Aug 18, 2017 - 12:26 am)

that sentence alone should raise numerous red flags

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isthisit (Aug 17, 2017 - 12:13 pm)

Dharma are you trolling?

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 12:14 pm)

No. My mom disagrees with my psychiatrists diagnosis so she prescribes another med. I take one med from one doc and another prescribed from my mom because she forces it on me.

Reply Like (0)
retard (Aug 17, 2017 - 1:16 pm)

Ummm, please say this is flame? Your mother is treating you, disagrees with your real doctor and forces you to take a second medication?

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 3:16 pm)

Yes she prescribes another med, so I am taking two meds.

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thirdtierlaw (Aug 17, 2017 - 1:48 pm)

Now I'm confused. I thought you said you were only using your mom because you couldn't afford to see anyone else. But now you're saying that there is a doctor prescribing medications for you. You mom just doesn't agree with the diagnosis so she is taking matters into her own hands.

Does doctor number 1 know about this? This is frighteningly dangerous. One of the main reasons many Medical associations bar Doctors treating family members is because they cannot be objective and emotion can cloud their judgment.

I'll just state it again, you're making C&F much more difficult for yourself than you should.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 3:18 pm)

No. Doc 1(who I stopped seeing this month because my school insurance runs out) does not know that mom is prescribing another med. I trust her judgment.

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dingbat (Aug 18, 2017 - 12:28 am)

she CLEARLY has bad judgment if she's treating you and prescribing meds different than what your other shrink is prescribing (the meds will counter-act each other)

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 12:13 pm)

I've had more therapists than you can shake a stick at. They do nothing. I'm still single, barely have a career, 15 pounds overweight, and feel like I've accomplished nothing in life.

Has anyone here tried TMS?

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retard (Aug 17, 2017 - 1:17 pm)

It sounds like you are not going to be able to demonstrate to C&F that your mental illness is under control.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 3:15 pm)

Maybe TMS will help. Therapy is worthless.

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dingbat (Aug 18, 2017 - 10:02 am)

maybe seeing a mental health professional WHO IS NOT YOUR MOTHER might help

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trickydick (Aug 17, 2017 - 1:39 pm)

After reviewing the information you posted and given my own experience with C&F, my earnest advice is that you are unlikely to be approved and should stop investing further time and energy in attempting to obtain your license to practice. You sound like a competent and resourceful person, there are more promising alternate paths for your future. I hope you take my opinion under advisement.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 3:15 pm)

People with multiple DUIs and domestic violence get through C&F. I think I'll be fine. Just wanted to know how much of a delay I should expect.

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trickydick (Aug 17, 2017 - 4:44 pm)

Yes, people with criminal convictions pass C&F all the time, but in the grand scheme of things crimes that don't involve falsehood are not considered as serious as substantial mental health problems.

After hearing about the extent of your mental health issues, it seems evident to me that they rise to the level where your capacity to effectively represent your clients should be considered severely impaired. I don't meant that as a judgement or criticism of you but merely as an honest assessment of your situation.

Moreover, putting aside whether C&F would approve you, there are reasons for declining to practice law that transcend the C&F process.

You would be doing a disservice to your potential clients, colleagues, and employers by trying to practice law without first resolving the mental illness that you continue to struggle with. This isn't meant as an insult or as an attempt to undermine your goals, it is simply an observation based on your own representations.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 4:52 pm)

I'm doing the best I can to resolve the issues. I see a therapist, two psychiatrists, etc. I take my medications as prescribed. People with MUCH worse become attorneys. I'm just depressed because I am single, 15 pounds overweight, 29 years old, etc.

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trickydick (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:06 pm)

You should stop comparing yourself to other people and other cases. Unlike, for example, bankruptcies, DUI's, and shoplifting convictions, state bars examine mental health problems as individual and unique. One person suffering from paranoid schizophrenia may pass with adequate proof that he or she is successfully treating their illness while someone suffering from depression or anxiety may be denied for failure to establish that they are adequately treating their issues.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:09 pm)

I am adequately treating my mental health. Despite the issues I faced, I graduated with a JD with a clerkship lined up. Most JDs don't get their first job until after bar results. The NJ bar website even said that seeking treatment alone is not a basis for denial and that it encourages people to do so. .

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isthisit (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:08 pm)

Are you at least attractive? If so, lose the weight and find yourself a financially stable man whose life you can ruin. Pop out a kid to lock him down.

The law isn't for you. You won't pass C&F and you don't have the mental fortitude to be an attorney.

/Earnest poast.
Be gentle dear Admin, this is my first time getting banned.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:18 pm)

Thanks but no thanks. Your opinion is baseless. People with much worse issues routinely pass C&F. A professional ethics attorney with decades of experience representing bar applicants thinks otherwise re: my chances. I have a lot to offer the legal community.

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isthisit (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:20 pm)

If you already have the counsel of an experienced C&F attorney than why are you asking on JDU?

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:22 pm)

It was just a free consult. I haven't retained anyone yet. I'm sitting for the February 2018 NJ bar, and results don't come out until May, so it's a little premature to hire anyone.

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imoothereforeim (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:23 pm)

Are you getting extra time for the bar exam?

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:24 pm)

I was denied because I got a 164 on the LSAT without accommodations and a 128 on the MPRE without accommodations.

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imoothereforeim (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:32 pm)

You have plenty of time to prepare. I'd say good luck but I'm sure you won't need it.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:36 pm)

Thanks! Unfortunately I'll be working full time as a Judicial Law Clerk while studying. Also, the February bar is harder (horrible pass rates). I'm definitely anxious.

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dingbat (Aug 18, 2017 - 12:31 am)

the february bar is not harder, the examinees are generally less competent

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karlfarbman (Aug 18, 2017 - 9:06 am)

Haha this is like basic bar study info. Sometimes I can't believe she isn't trolling.

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wutwutwut (Aug 18, 2017 - 9:56 am)

Why would someone set up an elaborate, years-long flame?

One that consistently garners some of the highest response rates?

Why?

hahaha

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3lol (Aug 18, 2017 - 10:33 am)

See e.g. TheImmigrant

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 4:21 pm)

You do realize how exceedingly rare it is to get rejected by C&F?

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trickydick (Aug 17, 2017 - 4:47 pm)

Yes, and after having been exposed to a wide variety of C&F experiences I honestly feel that yours is one of the few cases that will probably be and should be denied. I reiterate, this isn't meant as an insult, criticism, or judgment, it is merely an honest assessment of the serious of the issues you claim to still be struggling with.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 4:50 pm)

The overwhelming majority of attorneys struggle with mental health problems. This is nothing new. People with much more serious issues (felony convictions, plagiarism,bankruptcies, alcoholism/drug abuse, domestic violence, multiple DUIs, etc.) pass C&F. You honesty think beating women or endangering lives by driving drunk is less blameworthy than having a psychiatric illness? It would be foolish to quit now that I have a JD, a clerkship, etc. The legal profession would be much better off with me in it. I'm talented, passionate and have a lot to offer any employer.

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trickydick (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:28 pm)

See my post above. You need to stop comparing yourself to others.

"You honesty think beating women or endangering lives by driving drunk is less blameworthy than having a psychiatric illness?"

It's not an issue of moral culpability. Someone who had too much too drink once and got a DUI is probably better suited to practice law than someone who regularly abuses alcohol but has never been arrested. Similarly, someone who may have been arrested on a domestic violence charge may demonstrate that it was a single isolated incident while someone who has never been arrested but who demonstrates a long history of anger management problems may be less suited to practice law.

The idea that it is too late to turn back has been the ruin of many attorneys. You've been admitted to law school, so it's too late to drop out. You've graduated, so it's too late not to take the bar. You've gotten your license, so you must practice. I have met many attorneys who don't realize until several years of practice that they are better suited to another profession which makes them happier and which they find more fulfilling.

You possess various attributes which might be beneficial in the practice of law but those same attributes may provide an even greater net benefit to society in another capacity unrelated to law. You should not dismiss alternative avenues for you to exercise your abilities.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:35 pm)

Look, I have a JD. I have a clerkship lined up that I start next week. I have callback interviews various places for positions starting in fall 2018. It would be a waste to turn my back on the law and work some sh*tty retail job, which is probably all I could do with a sociology/anthropology/Spanish BA. I spent many years and a lot of money towards this goal. It's what I'm passionate about. I am very well suited to the legal profession. I've enjoyed and performed well on the job (even while dealing with depression) and there's no reason why I can't continue.

Reply Like (0)
thirdtierlaw (Aug 17, 2017 - 6:51 pm)

I'm going to offer some words or advice. Do not qualify any statements with, "even while dealing with depression." This is especially true with employers and C&F committees.

You aren't incorrect that this profession is filled with alcoholics and people suffering from anxiety and depression. However the expectation, outside anonymous forums, is to keep it yourself and not make anyone in the profession aware.

You asked and were denied accommodations, which everyone on here told you that you would be, so now you're already going to be on their watch list. You've admitted that, at least at the time of applying to take the bar, that you believe your mental condition has a serious effect on your ability to perform.

If you go in there are start qualifying statements by your mental condition, without being asked, you'll likely be in for a world of hurt.

Clients do not care what personal issues you are dealing with. They do care, and the board of Prof responsibility cares, if they believe your person stuff is affecting your performance. When you're hired, you're hired to perform at your best. If they find out there is something getting in the way of you performing at your best, i.e. depression, they'll have an issue.

Tldr: outside of anonymous forums do not mention that you are suffering from depression, especially as a way to brag about how great you are.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 7:18 pm)

I understand. It's just incredibly presumptuous and prejudicial to say that I don't have the "mental fortitude" for law. I've performed well in high-pressure settings.

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pauperesq (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:40 pm)

Okay opal, everyone gets it: you're a superstar-in-waiting.

As for your initial question (which, I might add, you've asked in general countless times previously), here's the simple answer:

There is no simple answer.

You're almost certainly going to have a delay. How long? It's impossible to say. Maybe the board asks for additional information that you can quickly get to them and they push you through after a couple of weeks. Maybe you find yourself jumping through their hoops for 6+ months.

Stop worrying about how long you might be delayed and start focusing on what you can do to alleviate the board's concerns.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 5:44 pm)

What can I do to alleviate the board's concerns? I plan to see a psychiatrist, do domestic violence support groups/counseling, kick ass at my job, etc. What more can I do?

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pauperesq (Aug 18, 2017 - 9:50 am)

Stop getting treatment from your mother. Immediately. It's disturbing that you don't seem to recognize how bad this is going to look to the board. The fact that she's a licensed professional is irrelevant. She's your mother, she's biased. Period.

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joshdoctson (Aug 17, 2017 - 8:47 pm)

This HAS to be roll bread, right?

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 10:22 pm)

???

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guyingorillasuit (Aug 17, 2017 - 10:45 pm)

The board will want independent corroboration of your mental well-being from a professional they trust. This will likely put you through LAP for a period of 6 months to a year. LAP means you cannot drink, even if alcoholism was never your issue. You will be randomly tested for substances. Every meeting, while disguised as group therapy, is absolutely not therapy. You are being evaluated by someone who will decide your future. It is in your best interest to appear sincere, and to share on some of your issues, with a focus on how you're developing coping strategies and resilience. Do not attack LAP, the therapist, the bar, or anyone else. Share your struggles (nothing extreme), and how you are working to become a better person.

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dharamsala (Aug 17, 2017 - 10:50 pm)

My issues/struggles are that I'm depressed due to being single, old as sh*t (29), unaccomplished and 15 pounds overweight. I'm not pleased with how my life has turned out. :(

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guyingorillasuit (Aug 18, 2017 - 12:38 am)

Actually, those are not your issues. A lot of people are dissatisfied with themselves, and question themselves, yet go on to live normal, healthy lives. Your issues revolve around how you choose to address and deal with these perceived shortcomings. Your rehabilitation will necessarily involve learning healthy ways to deal with anxiety, fear, self-doubt, and low self-esteem. I can tell you without any hesitation that medication alone is not enough, and the board will not accept this solution.

I can also represent to you that your involvement of your mother as your therapist will be perceived as a symptom of your disease. When you begin your LAP group, ask your group therapist for a referral to an individual therapist he or she trusts.

Until you learn that your problem is you, and the way you react to your own feelings, emotions, and perceptions, you will not be able to demonstrate growth convincingly.

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dingbat (Aug 18, 2017 - 12:42 am)

nobody cares.

seriously, nobody cares.

What matters is that you have a record of psychological issues, are seeing two different mental health professionals - who are providing different diagnoses and different prescriptions (one of which is your mom), and are stubbornly stuck on insisting that you're right and the whole world is wrong.

first, stop seeing your mom professionally. She should not be treating you. Period. No excuses.
second, listen to what other people are saying, take their words to heart, understand why they're saying it, and figure out what it is they want to hear/see.

If you can't do those two things, stop asking for advice and stop trying to be successful, as I guarantee the advice will fall on deaf ears and you will fail at life. seriously, grow up.

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thirdtierlaw (Aug 18, 2017 - 9:20 am)

When you meet with the character and fitness people, please set up a camera and tell them this. I would love to see their reaction. Do you actually know any attorneys?

Well over half this profession is slightly to very overweight, single, and unhappy practicing law.

It is a sedentary career. I am in court multiple times a week for hearings and I still spend the majority of my time sitting. The profession revolves around reading and writting. It is also notorious for long hours and stress. So you do not have time to work out, it's easier to grab fast food than cook, and stress causes many people to put on weight.

As for being single. The long hours and stress cause a lot of attorneys to be single especially due to a divorce.

As for unaccomplished. That is even funnier. Very few attorneys ever feel accomplished. Practicing law becomes rote after awhile and it's hard to feel accomplished when you're looking at a case load of recovering unpaid child support, client's 10th DLS, or another fender bender discovery request.

So you're struggling with what a large percentage of attorneys consider baseline. How do you suppose the C&F people will think you will react when the realities of practice really sink in? Internships and clinics aren't real practice. You haven't had to deal with mulitiple fires needing to be dealt with immediately arising right before you were supposed to be leaving for a weeklong vacation.

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imoothereforeim (Aug 18, 2017 - 4:44 pm)

I was 50-60 pounds heavier in law school.

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junkwired (Aug 18, 2017 - 4:58 pm)

Eh 29 isn't old.

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flyer14 (Aug 18, 2017 - 8:36 am)

1) Get your sh*t sorted out before taking the bar exam. Solve whatever underlying problem is causing depression or other issues. What you listed - single, 15 lbs overweight, and no career - is not insurmountable. I'm more than 15 lbs overweight and I simply don't give a f*ck.

2) I'm no psychotherapist, but stop seeing your mom. Period. She is not a neutral advisor in any way.

3) Are you sure you want to practice law? Law as a career sucks. It's stressful, it's dealing with crap people, it's dealing with crap clients all day. Yes, it can be immensely rewarding but you must be able to handle any stress that comes your way. And right now, it doesn't look like you can.

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defensivelawyer (Aug 18, 2017 - 9:42 am)

All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.
Blaise Pascal, Pensées

just calm yourself, and wait, and accept everything as it comes, if possible.

otherwise, suffer interminably with useless anxiety.

re 15 lbs. eat less crap and go for a long walk.

re. 29 being old.
it isnt.

re being single. see quote.

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retard (Aug 18, 2017 - 4:19 pm)

You just need to get laid. You'll feel much better about yourself.

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dharamsala (Aug 18, 2017 - 4:38 pm)

You clearly have no idea about the mechanics of depression.

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retard (Aug 18, 2017 - 4:50 pm)

Sexual intercourse releases chemicals that make you happy.

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dharamsala (Aug 18, 2017 - 4:56 pm)

That's just a quick fix. It won't provide lasting happiness.

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wutwutwut (Aug 18, 2017 - 5:12 pm)

live in the moment

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dingbat (Aug 18, 2017 - 11:42 pm)

get laid a lot?

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kmm0421 (Oct 30, 2017 - 1:08 am)

Did anyone choose to take the private provider route instead of going with NJLAP? I passed the July 2017 exam and just received the referral the other day.

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bodhicitta (Oct 30, 2017 - 9:09 am)

I'd like to use a private provider too. (No where near NJ at the moment)

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kmm0421 (Oct 30, 2017 - 12:39 pm)

I found one in NJ for a hefty price. I'm just hoping this process goes as fast as possible. Are a lot of people given 303 hearing? I don't want to disclose too much (privately I will)

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dharamsala (Oct 30, 2017 - 1:09 pm)

Why are you paying for a provider in NJ when NJLAP is free of cost? I’m seeing a free private therapist because I’m ~200 miles from New Brunswick.

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kmm0421 (Oct 30, 2017 - 4:30 pm)

My job is on the line and I need this done as quickly and efficiently as possible. I definitely can't wait for NJLAP and I figured you get what you pay for. I am trying to avoid a hearing. I'm sick to my stomach with all of this. I thought the worst was over.

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dharamsala (Oct 30, 2017 - 5:53 pm)

How much time is your employer giving you to get sworn in?

Thankfully, I'm clerking, so I don't need to be barred for a while.

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dharamsala (Oct 30, 2017 - 11:04 pm)

According to the NJLAP website, you may choose a private provider, but they must be approved by NJLAP.

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kmm0421 (Oct 30, 2017 - 10:00 pm)

There isn't a set date but they were hoping I would be sworn in on time. I'm assuming they aren't going to wait past January.

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dharamsala (Oct 30, 2017 - 10:30 pm)

Did you tell them about the NJLAP referral?

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kmm0421 (Oct 31, 2017 - 8:10 pm)

Yeah. They know it's highly unlikely I'll be sworn in on time but they aren't anticipating that I will get a hearing. My doctor received my file today and my appointment is next week. Hoping all goes smoothly.

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dharamsala (Nov 1, 2017 - 9:02 pm)

Have you consulted with a C&F attorney about your chances?

I don't plan on paying for one unless I get a 303.

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