Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

HR vp of firm I was fired from offering to speak to me

A few years, I was asked to leave a firm where my attitude h dcgootle10/05/17
just bumping this...plan to go on the phone in a couple hour dcgootle10/05/17
I would guess that they want to know more about what you've onehell10/05/17
I wouldn't get your hopes but see what's up in a chill bro s triplesix10/05/17
care to elaborate on the "not in your favor" reasons? dcgootle10/05/17
HR Lady to Equity Partners: "By the way, remember dcgootle? jackofspeed10/05/17
**facepalm** This is up there with the guy who wanted to passportfan310/05/17
do you really think i'm that dumb? reread my initial post a dcgootle10/05/17
Nice to see that your attitude has improved... becksquire10/05/17
oh please...this is an anonymous message board....cut to the dcgootle10/05/17
I'll temper this a bit...i shouldn't snap back at a JDU post dcgootle10/05/17
I'll give you that; I should provide something positive. becksquire10/05/17
TITCR along with reasonable expectations and thick skin. triplesix10/05/17
Sounds like a waste of time. They canned you. And you kee isthisit10/05/17
I'd temper any expectations. I just can't see an employer d jd4hire10/05/17
"I know that Julie turned me down for dates and told me she passportfan310/05/17
what if julie's best friend, the most trusted person in scho dcgootle10/05/17
I can't tell if trolling dude... solid sense of humor if triplesix10/05/17
Following this metaphor: If she asked to meet in person I'd isthisit10/05/17
add a father... and this story happened to me and ohh boy wa triplesix10/05/17
You know the rules papi. 1. Losers lose and women are cr isthisit10/05/17
I don't think I did but I was properly educated about stayin triplesix10/05/17
So, how did the call go? Was it positive, generally? inho2solo10/05/17
didn't happen unfortunately....left a voicemail dcgootle10/05/17
Womp Womp. Please see rule #1 above. Do not follow up isthisit10/05/17
What a surprise, the phone call didn't happen. Similar pa wcdtax10/06/17
I read this entire post. The only part that really sticks ambulancechaser201310/05/17
thanks....that was helpful and comforting....do you think th dcgootle10/06/17
Have you considered why you are attracted to the female HR? 2ski10/06/17
if I recall correctly, OP is the same guy about a week or tw williamdrayton10/06/17
Own personal opinion, I would have followed up twice. If you kramer71610/06/17
Email exchanges....start at the bottom and read up 10/5/1 dcgootle10/06/17
might want to delete the phone number. and let it go. 2ski10/06/17
dude, I am sorry, but when a person tells you they are avila wolfman10/06/17
Serious question and I mean no disrespect - have you ever be 2breedbares10/06/17
no...feel free to elaborate...i assume you're a medical doct dcgootle10/06/17
and, pardon the bluntness in my defensiveness, but shame on dcgootle10/06/17
Aspergers is not retardation, it's just an impaired ability 2breedbares10/06/17
useful and good context...thank you for explaining...very he dcgootle10/06/17
The only thing I take away from that e-mail exchange is that thirdtierlaw10/06/17
I read the emails. It sounds like you suck. Move on. isthisit10/06/17
thanks for the help bro dcgootle10/06/17
They don't want you back. Over the course of two years or s wcdtax10/06/17
This is probably the most cringeworthy thread I have seen on joshdoctson10/06/17
You definitely need to talk to the HR lady. You have put to doublefriedchicken10/06/17
there's a difference between not picking up on cues - as man dcgootle10/06/17
You're the kind of man I hope the broad who cut me off today isthisit10/07/17
OP, I know you want to argue your point, but your straw poll mrtor10/09/17
Ditto the post above expressing incredulity that you couldn' pauperesq10/09/17
Hmmm.. I dk I sort of disagree, what do you have to lose by fompliance210/10/17
She's not offering to speak with you. She's agreeing to spea retard10/10/17
I would follow up. You never know. Or maybe she is just in cheapbrass10/10/17

dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 12:22 pm)

A few years, I was asked to leave a firm where my attitude had soured because of what I felt was a complete lack of recognition that I was doing associate-level work at law clerk pay (and title obviously). I was let go "because the work dried up," but the message was pretty clear that I was just not getting the job done. There is no doubt that I could've done a lot of things differently, but I sulked, and ultimately got what I deserved. At my pay rate, I figured that just about any other legal job (maybe any other job that requires a college degree for that matter) would pay about the same, but I have since recognized that if I could've done it all over, it would've been best just to gut it out there, even with what I perceived to be an unhealthy environment.

The firm has come back quite strong since then. I think I had joined in a pretty bad year, but they have opened up their hiring quite a bit. I have sent emails to the HR coordinator who was present at my termination meeting, trying to salvage the professional relationship. Some of the emails go responded to, some don't. But I finally got one back today, and I'm hoping to talk to her.

She obviously wouldn't waste her time with me if she wasn't willing to help, or at least, do something for me, right? She could've just ignored me entirely or written back some boilerplate like "the firm is uncomfortable talking to you, etc...." What can I expect from talking to her? I'd be shocked if she was in a position to help me get a job there, but I'd take it in a heartbeat. If that's not what we're talking about, then I'm not sure what the purpose of the call is. Can the JDU community fill me in as to what I should expect?

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dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 1:45 pm)

just bumping this...plan to go on the phone in a couple hours

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onehell (Oct 5, 2017 - 1:49 pm)

I would guess that they want to know more about what you've been up to since leaving and, if they like what they hear and are convinced there are no hard feelings on your part, might want to see if you want to come back.

Either that, or this HR person is unhappy and wants to see if you are a potential lead for other opportunities for her.

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triplesix (Oct 5, 2017 - 2:35 pm)

I wouldn't get your hopes but see what's up in a chill bro sort of way. There are several reason she would be doing this and some of them are not in your favor.

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dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 2:41 pm)

care to elaborate on the "not in your favor" reasons?

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jackofspeed (Oct 5, 2017 - 4:31 pm)

HR Lady to Equity Partners: "By the way, remember dcgootle? He keeps sending me emails. Maybe wants to rehash why he was let go, but it looks like he may want a job. What should I do?"

Equity Partner in Good mood: "You know what, he was a kid and stupid. But since he's crawling back to us maybe he's desperate. If he wants a job make sure he understands we're going to pay him less than his clerk salary and his attitude had better be stellar. Of course if he's got a million dollar book or something we'll really talk. Anyway thanks for taking care of this."

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passportfan3 (Oct 5, 2017 - 3:06 pm)

**facepalm**

This is up there with the guy who wanted to ask for a reference from a partner who interviewed him but did not offer him a job.

Earth to DCGootle: They FIRED you.

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dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 3:12 pm)

do you really think i'm that dumb? reread my initial post and tell me how I haven't already dispelled that fact.

Eart to passportfan3: I wrote this post BECAUSE they fired me

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becksquire (Oct 5, 2017 - 3:47 pm)

Nice to see that your attitude has improved...

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dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 3:52 pm)

oh please...this is an anonymous message board....cut to the chase and say something useful or just don't contribute

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dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 4:27 pm)

I'll temper this a bit...i shouldn't snap back at a JDU poster like that. I'm simply trying to convey that I specifically asked for advice because the circumstances were so odd that I honestly didn't know what, if anything, there was to gain from it. A simple post that hollowly criticizes me and calls me dumb gets me nowhere...I know I was fired...that's what makes this issue worth asking for advice

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becksquire (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:44 pm)

I'll give you that; I should provide something positive.

I don't think there is any harm in talking to them. They could say "Stop calling us or we're getting a restraining order," or they could ask you to come back on a trial basis. Either way, aside from a potential blow to the ego, I think it is worth putting yourself out there to see if there is an opportunity.

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triplesix (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:49 pm)

TITCR along with reasonable expectations and thick skin.

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isthisit (Oct 5, 2017 - 5:23 pm)

Sounds like a waste of time.

They canned you. And you keep sending HR emails. They've answered some and ignored others.

I wouldn't be surprised if the call is to tell you to get the hint and stop harassing HR.

My advice, so as to not waste your time, is to stop being thirsty dude and move on.

But I could be wrong. They could be calling to offer partnership.

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jd4hire (Oct 5, 2017 - 5:34 pm)

I'd temper any expectations. I just can't see an employer doubling back on someone they fired unless the employee had a significant change in circumstances, i.e., large book of business.

Nonetheless, if the HR woman is normal and not sadistic, she wouldn't talk to you unless there was some reason to. Unfortunately, the reason could be to tell you to quit emailing and that you'll never work there again. Inversely, it could be a "hey, let's chat about opportunities here..."

Pray tell what happened.

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passportfan3 (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:07 pm)

"I know that Julie turned me down for dates and told me she would not go out with me and that usually she ignores me, but she looked at me in homeroom and sometimes she looks at me again in the hall,
so that must mean something."

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dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:25 pm)

what if julie's best friend, the most trusted person in school, asked to talk to me regarding the turndown

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triplesix (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:46 pm)

I can't tell if trolling dude...

solid sense of humor if are. you will bounce back.

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isthisit (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:55 pm)

Following this metaphor: If she asked to meet in person I'd tell you not to go because Julie's new boyfriend, her best friend's boyfriend, and their brother is waiting there for you to get the point across.

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triplesix (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:57 pm)

add a father... and this story happened to me and ohh boy was I told.

YOLO

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isthisit (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:59 pm)

You know the rules papi.

1. Losers lose and women are crazy.

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triplesix (Oct 5, 2017 - 7:06 pm)

I don't think I did but I was properly educated about staying my goddamn lane.

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inho2solo (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:54 pm)

So, how did the call go? Was it positive, generally?

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dcgootle (Oct 5, 2017 - 6:59 pm)

didn't happen unfortunately....left a voicemail

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isthisit (Oct 5, 2017 - 7:02 pm)

Womp Womp.

Please see rule #1 above.

Do not follow up anymore. It's over.

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wcdtax (Oct 6, 2017 - 4:04 pm)

What a surprise, the phone call didn't happen.

Similar pattern for over a year. Just move forward and show them it is their loss by being successful and taking their clients.

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ambulancechaser2013 (Oct 5, 2017 - 11:52 pm)

I read this entire post.

The only part that really sticks out to me is the feeling of regret. You should not feel any regret because you did not "suck it up" and "paid your dues." YES, you should pay your dues, but there is no need to regret and sulk about if you did not at that point. I know the feeling. Just romp and stomp the next opportunity, even if the pay is $50,000.00 with no benefits. Do it for 2 years (provided its legit civil litigation, transactional/corporate law, or criminal defense/prosecution) and get your experience. The market is popping now.

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dcgootle (Oct 6, 2017 - 10:23 am)

thanks....that was helpful and comforting....do you think there's nothing to be gained from trying to follow up? doesn't seem like it can hurt...logistically speaking at least....personally, it could hurt a lot

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2ski (Oct 6, 2017 - 10:42 am)

Have you considered why you are attracted to the female HR? Would you have the same thought process if HR was a guy? Truthfully answer this and you will have your new direction.

Inner look time. Not intended to be a slam. Hint: Has she called you back yet?

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williamdrayton (Oct 6, 2017 - 10:50 am)

if I recall correctly, OP is the same guy about a week or two ago who kept harassing some federal agency that had "almost" hired him in the past.

in all seriousness, OP, you need to learn when to cut your career losses and move on to focus on viable opportunities. you sound like the 35 year old still lamenting the day in 12th grade when his girlfriend dumped him so he stalks her on social media.

I've suffered more than my share of career disappointments with a bunch of woulda, coulda and shoulda. I had to learn to let it go and move forward - sounds like you need to do the same.

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kramer716 (Oct 6, 2017 - 11:08 am)

Own personal opinion, I would have followed up twice. If you don't get much of a response after that then move on.

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dcgootle (Oct 6, 2017 - 11:41 am)

Email exchanges....start at the bottom and read up

10/5/17
[To VP person]

I left you a voice message. Please feel free to call me back any time at [phone number] or to communicate through email.

Thanks,


10/5/17
Hello,

I am available this afternoon between 3:00pm and 4:00pm.

9/28/17

Hi [Vp person],

Hope you are well. I am still hoping to talk, and I noticed that [firm] has posted a new position. Please let me know when would be a good time to get in touch.

Thanks,
[me]

7/20/17
Hi [vp person],

I just wanted to circle back and see if you know of a good time to connect. Hope we can talk soon!

Thanks,




7/14/17
Hi [Vp person],

I am very flexible and can make time just about anywhere in that window. Thanks for getting back to me so quickly!


7/14/17
Hello [me],

Good to hear from you. Let’s start by identifying what time is good to connect. I am in the office everyday between 9:30am to 6:00pm. Perhaps we can set up a conference call.

What time and day work best for your schedule?

7/14/17

Hi [VP person],

I am still hoping to connect with you if you have any availability. Hope all is well.

--- there were some intermittent emails in 2016, but I can’t find them

11/12/15
So sorry my call has been so delayed. Things are very busy with yearend matters.

I just tried to reach out to you on [phone #]. Your mail box is full. Do not hesitate to call me. While I thought it would be best to speak with you in the evening after I leave the office, that’s proving not successful.

I look forward to speaking with you soon.

All the best,

11/12/15

Hi [VP person],

I hope your week is going well. I just wanted to check back in to see if you might have some free time to speak. If not, no big deal.

11/9/15
Hi [VP person],

I just wanted to check in to see if you were still planning on calling this evening.

Thanks,




11/9/15
[To me],
Happy to hear from you. It would be my pleasure to speak with you. I will call you between 5 and 7 this evening. Is that okay?

11/6/15
Hi [HR person],

I hope you are well. I know we haven't spoken in about 11 months - since I left [firm]. It has not been an easy last year, and I was hoping that you might be able to talk to me for just a few minutes via phone. If not, I completely understand. Hope you are doing well.

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2ski (Oct 6, 2017 - 12:02 pm)

might want to delete the phone number. and let it go.

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wolfman (Oct 6, 2017 - 12:18 pm)

dude, I am sorry, but when a person tells you they are avilable between hours of x and y, you don't leave a voice mail message... you keep calling during these hours until he picks up... assuming you actually want to have a conversation with said person

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2breedbares (Oct 6, 2017 - 12:23 pm)

Serious question and I mean no disrespect - have you ever been diagnosed with aspergers?

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dcgootle (Oct 6, 2017 - 12:28 pm)

no...feel free to elaborate...i assume you're a medical doctor?

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dcgootle (Oct 6, 2017 - 1:54 pm)

and, pardon the bluntness in my defensiveness, but shame on you for offering some worthless contribution like that...a lot of the people who come on here obviously aren't perfect and have undoubtedly struggled professionally...you shouldn't mistake anxiety and other issues for something like aspergers...i've made mistakes, looking to fix them and coming here for help...if you're response is going to effectively be "are you retarded," i feel bad for you

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2breedbares (Oct 6, 2017 - 2:52 pm)

Aspergers is not retardation, it's just an impaired ability to read social cues. Many great lawyers have aspergers. I only ask because it seems like your internal struggle here stems largely from not being on the same page as the HR's intentions. Plus you seemed fixated on trying to figure out her intentions are. I would take a step back and try to analyze how you're coming across by sending so many emails.

I have struggled professionally as well. Been no offered, laid off twice, countless connections who just disappeared. But I learned when to cut my losses and not dwell on the failures.

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dcgootle (Oct 6, 2017 - 3:12 pm)

useful and good context...thank you for explaining...very helpful

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thirdtierlaw (Oct 6, 2017 - 1:37 pm)

The only thing I take away from that e-mail exchange is that your mailbox was full two years ago. Seriously... if she had any interest in you as a professional, that would have slipped away. You are asking someone, who owes you nothing, to take time out of their day and contact you, but you make it difficult for her to succeed because you can't be bothered to delete/listen to your voicemails. It is one of my biggest pet peeves.

She wanted to talk after work, but then it turned into contacting her during her workday. This looks like a lost cause. Especially now that you mentioned that you noticed that the firm has a new position open and communication seemed to stop. You just need to let this go.

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isthisit (Oct 6, 2017 - 3:28 pm)

I read the emails.

It sounds like you suck.

Move on.

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dcgootle (Oct 6, 2017 - 3:43 pm)

thanks for the help bro

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wcdtax (Oct 6, 2017 - 4:02 pm)

They don't want you back. Over the course of two years or so a phone call never happens?

GIVE UP. You need to move forward.

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joshdoctson (Oct 6, 2017 - 4:27 pm)

This is probably the most cringeworthy thread I have seen on this website. OP must have at least a mild case of auts with those responses. That being said, YOU reached out to her TWO years ago! Clearly they cannot wait to have you back. I'm surprised they haven't sent a limo to pick you up yet. Keep trying to call her back; worst she could do is not pick up.

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doublefriedchicken (Oct 6, 2017 - 4:37 pm)

You definitely need to talk to the HR lady. You have put too much effort into this not too. That said, I pretty much agree with everything else everyone has said - time to move on. The best part about walking into a job where you don't know anyone is that you can be anything you want to be - as long as you can do the job.

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dcgootle (Oct 6, 2017 - 5:08 pm)

there's a difference between not picking up on cues - as many on this thread have accused me of - and being unclear on them...this a reputable organization...do you really think their HR vp would string this out just as a courtesy? obviously, theyre not recruiting me - but i have to think there's a greater than 0% chance that there's something to be gained here? No?

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isthisit (Oct 7, 2017 - 12:03 am)

You're the kind of man I hope the broad who cut me off today meets.

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mrtor (Oct 9, 2017 - 12:15 pm)

OP, I know you want to argue your point, but your straw poll has come back unanimous: Move on, dude. You strike me as a hardheaded-type of person who occasionally struggles with common sense. We all do sometimes. Learn from these moments -- understand what people are saying and avoid doing these types of things in the future.

IMO, you dodged a bullet. Why would you want to go back? You have proclaimed other POTENTIAL factors for your firing, but ultimately you do not know whether they actually played a role. If they did not, you probably would have been shown the door again. I think you should re-focus your search efforts. I don't know your entire backstory, but you should pursue something new.

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pauperesq (Oct 9, 2017 - 1:44 pm)

Ditto the post above expressing incredulity that you couldn't make a phone call happen for two years.

Stop harassing this HR woman. You want to spin this as her or the firm still having some interest in you, when in reality she's likely just uncomfortable bluntly telling you off and hoping you'll eventually take a hint. And she's also likely worried that if she tells you off you'll go around saying bad things about the firm.

Stop reading into her supposed willingness to talk to you as anything more than just being polite. If there really was a desire to bring you back, that would have already been expressed to you, in no uncertain terms, over the last two years.

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fompliance2 (Oct 10, 2017 - 6:39 am)

Hmmm.. I dk I sort of disagree, what do you have to lose by following up, nothing really, hr is responding so I would continue to try to connect, if she goes cold then I would reconsider, but clearly you have the time, ability and motivation to follow up so I would just continue to do so in a pleasant matter who knows what will come of it

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retard (Oct 10, 2017 - 9:12 am)

She's not offering to speak with you. She's agreeing to speak with you (and not following through).

Offering implies she is reaching out to you when instead you are harassing her.

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cheapbrass (Oct 10, 2017 - 1:58 pm)

I would follow up. You never know. Or maybe she is just interested in dating you?

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