Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Another Law Firm Job ad that want's you to bend over backwards for low pay

I saw this ridiculous ad on Craigslist----- Hey Lawyers! jjjj10/10/17
Either the person who wrote the ad is a rainmaker who does n thirdtierlaw10/10/17
Kali the stuff about law schools churning out bad lawyers is jorgedeclaro10/10/17
I'm not even going to waste my time reading all of this insa cranky10/10/17
This poster is legit insane. physicssezno10/11/17
I don't know....I know a bunch of UCLA and USC Law schol gra mrlollipop10/11/17
The long-winded post and insistence on jumping through hoops pauperesq10/11/17
Eh, with student loans, it probably doesn't pass as livable junkwired10/11/17
I saw it the other way around. The long-winded post shows he superttthero10/11/17
40k in so cal is homeless karlmarx10/11/17
I read it as the bonus only kicks in for cases that you brin pauperesq10/11/17
There is no mention of what the bonus is, but generally if i superttthero10/11/17
Actually, looking at it again, he seems to suggest that the pauperesq10/11/17
While he makes a lot of valid points, his overall apparent c mrtor10/11/17
"He brakes his neck" Is it okay to conflate car crash inj sanka10/11/17
If this person wins all these huge verdicts, so much that it physicssezno10/11/17
https://youtu.be/RwVCJhN2QD4 They've got one law school 7 isthisit10/11/17
The prestige game in biglaw is a little too far in the other superttthero10/11/17
Who is the law school 7? I hate the way Case keeps holding h cranky10/11/17
I think you've hit upon the key issue here, however, your ju cacrimdefense10/11/17
Looks like a Regis office variant. He must have only a coupl 2ski10/11/17
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this. Dude's dad is John B onehell10/11/17
This and that and more of this. Most employers won’t care ambulancechaser201310/11/17
Though I will say the salary is to a total joke for Orange C ambulancechaser201310/11/17
"if you don't read non-fiction books, this isn't the job for vladharkonnen10/11/17
I'll pump the "brakes" on responding thank you. Can tell th bigbossman10/11/17
This ad strikes me as someone with their feet on the desk di 2ski10/12/17
If you spell wants as "want's," maybe this is the best you c fettywap10/12/17
For a completely useless fresh law grad with no experience, confused1l9310/12/17
All of you need to stop saying that 40k is fine, its not fin mtbislife10/12/17
Titcr. triplesix10/12/17
Hey can anybody review my "homework assignments" before I su anothernjlawyer10/13/17

jjjj (Oct 10, 2017 - 4:52 pm)

I saw this ridiculous ad on Craigslist-----

Hey Lawyers! This Is Not Your Average Job Listing (Costa Mesa)

compensation: Salary plus bonuses
employment type: full-time
We are one of the leading firms in California representing injured victims in personal injury lawsuits. We are looking for an associate for our growing firm.

Only a truly ambitious and passionate attorney will read this entire ad, follow the directions clearly and start the job of their dreams! You would be amazed at the number of people who will respond to this ad incorrectly and show us no ability to follow simple directions. How could we trust someone with discovery who can't follow simple written directions? Why would we want to work with someone who can't even go above and beyond to land a job? Imagine how they would be once they were on payroll? Can you believe that some people apply for a job without even doing research on who they are interviewing with? We don't want to work with people who are just looking for a paycheck. We want to work with people who have passion. We want people who see an opportunity to grow and become a trial lawyer.

And a word of warning: we believe that most who fancy themselves attorneys aren't really all that good at their craft. Frankly, the education system is "graduating" tons and tons of people each year with overpriced degrees who can't write to communicate ideas and who have no real-world legal experience. This is sad.

We need your help to take depositions, prepare and respond to discovery and, eventually, second-chair trials with us.

You have the chance to learn the secrets to effective litigation while honing your skills as a trial attorney and learning from one of the top PI firms in Southern California.

Who are we? We are a Costa Mesa, CA, based business. We are a personal injury law firm who produces more consumer-friendly information than any law firm around. We are different than any other law firms because we make our client the center of everything we do. Our top priority is customer service which means we communicate with our clients regularly and much more often than most law firms.

We are looking for an associate who understands the personal injury litigation process.

The person that we hire will know what it means to meet deadlines, work independently and restore our faith in the American work ethic. They will learn how to take a case all the way to trial. (Plus, if law is your passion, you won't be another one of those starving attorneys thinking that the guys who hit huge verdicts got "lucky".)

We would love to work with a young attorney who is motivated and wants to get some practical experience. In the process of working on our cases, you will end up absorbing vast amounts of information about litigating a case through trial.

This may be the stepping-stone to gain massive amounts of experience and knowledge that will lead you to becoming an attorney who actually tries cases.... not something that many attorneys can, or know how, to do.

To be successful right away, we would like someone who is able to do the following:
- Determines statute of limitations
- Prepares demands
- Follows up with insurance adjuster
- Negotiates to work toward settlement
- Identify potential deponents
- Light calendaring
- Prepares rules lists and jury instructions
- Works with investigator
- Site inspections
- Prepares complaint

Knowledge of the following list is a major plus, but we will teach the right person if they don't know. (Note: We firmly believe that hiring the RIGHT person for this job, nor just the person with the right credentials.) We like working with smart, motivated individuals who are eager to learn. We know that the right person can absolutely be taught the right methods. Please don't be like the last self-proclaimed "superstar" who we actually hired only to have him oversleep on his first day of the job. He can now brag that he was "hired and FIRED in the same week".
- Form rog requests
- Special interrogatory requests
- Requests for production
- Requests for admission
- Response to requests for production
- Response to special interrogatories
- Response to requests for admission
- Response to form interrogatories
- Prepare subpoenas
- Meet & Confer letters
- Motions to compel
- Prepare Opp to motions to compel
- Prepare depo notices
- Depo binders

We will teach you how to do the following:
- Take depositions
- Argue discovery motions
- Prep & file CMC statements
- File motion to quash
- Take default judgment
- Attend CMC
- Demand for expert exchange
- Propound pre-trial discovery
- Oppose MSJ
- Summarize depos
- Oppose demurrer
- Oppose motion to strike
- Settlement conference statement
- Pull background on defense experts
- Trial brief
- Motions in limine
- Prep verdict form
- Pre-trial exchange of trial docs
- Review court room rules
- Trial

We only employ people who are constant learners and read on their own time (if you've ever read anything by David Ball or Don Keenan that's a great place to start).

One thing that is hard to teach is good writing. That is why, in addition to sending us your resume and cover letter describing why you think you would be a good fit for this position, you will need to submit the following three "assignments" as well.

1. Write a "chapter" based on the videos on our YouTube channel. Feel free to write about anything that "speaks" to you.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDU4cauqsyUlNSgDTvdFabg/videos

2. Write an article using the information in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UijWTrm53aQ&t=175s
that gives a quick summary of the core values or our firm.

3. Complete the following:
Plaintiff is 15-year-old boy hanging out with several friends after 11 pm at his apartment complex. He and his friends get into the unlocked pool section of the apartment complex. The lights are off at the pool and the boy dives into the shallow end of the pool. He brakes his neck, survives, but becomes quadriplegic.
Prepare requests for production for documents important to obtain in the prosecution of this case against any potential defendants.

Who this job is not for?
- If you want to show up and punch a clock, doing the bare minimum asked from you, this isn't the job for you
- If you need lots of direction, this isn't the job for you
- if you don't read non-fiction books, this isn't the job for you
- If you need a large base salary to keep you working, this isn't the job for you
- If you are already set in your ways with how cases should be worked up, this isn't the job for
- If you aren't willing to learn on your own time, this isn't the job for you
- If stepping outside of your comfort zone isn't exciting, this isn't the job for you
- If you don't enjoy talking to clients, attorneys, and others, this isn't' the job for you
- If you aren't good with computers and learning new software, this isn't the job for you

Ok, but how much money will I make with this "dream" job?

So now we're at what you're looking for- how much money will you make? We want to work with someone on a base salary and bonus structure basis. This means that you have a chance to make more money the harder you work-we're not putting up barriers and telling you that you can ONLY make xxx dollars per month on a 40-hour work week. If you close cases, you get paid. And we have A LOT of cases that we want to close out so there will always be new cases. You will also get a very fair percentage of any case that you generate on your own and bring into the firm. Understand this: we want to make you happy with the money you are getting paid and the interesting work you will be doing.

Our current budget for this position is a base salary of $40,000 per year plus bonuses. You will be a full-time employee of the firm and work from our office in Costa Mesa. The minimum hours are 9 am-5 pm Monday-Friday.

You should go check us out. In fact, one of the questions I'll ask when we talk is what you know about us. Prove to us that you are internet savvy and actually interested in what we do by taking the initiative and spending some time to find out about your future employer.

Ok, here's how you apply. You must follow these directions completely. All of those automatically generated responses or responses that show me that you can't follow directions get dumped into the electronic trashcan.

The only way to respond is to send an email to the address listed on this ad. Subject line: I'd love to work at your firm. The body of your email should be a cover letter explaining why you're interested in our firm and the practice of law, that you understand the requirements, and what your availability is for an interview. Also, attach your resume in pdf format and let me know the best way to contact you. There should be a total of 4 attachments in addition to the body of your email: a resume and the 3 "assignment" listed above.

Please don't send an email or call and ask if we received your info. We've run this ad in the past and it typically gets a lot of responses. Some of our best employees have come from responding to this ad and they are courageous, hard-working and passionate.

The deadline for the applications is October 30th though if the person we really like comes along sooner we may close this opening right then and there.

So, again, I'm not looking for just an "associate". I am looking for a great lawyer for our Costa Mesa office who is interested in being groomed into an exceptional trial attorney. This opportunity will not be right for everyone but for the right lawyer this could be the opportunity that will change your life and your career.

Thanks for reading...we truly believe that success does not come from luck.

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thirdtierlaw (Oct 10, 2017 - 8:52 pm)

Either the person who wrote the ad is a rainmaker who does no real work or the firm has a lack of work to do.

Who creates job postings that long? They should pay me that $40k just for reading 90% of it.

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jorgedeclaro (Oct 10, 2017 - 10:04 pm)

Kali the stuff about law schools churning out bad lawyers is true. But a low-end personal injury mill is hardly the place that high level lawyer skills get tested. I have no idea where Costa Mesa is, but $40k isn't attracting anything but bottom of the barrel. While identifying legal talent from law school is an imperfect system, with that offer you are hoping for a unicorn of unicorn.

In response to your hypothetical, I'm not propounding discovery because the case isn't worth more than a nuisance settlement and you're lucky you are in California so you aren't getting sanctioned for a frivolous case. At 15 you are way too old for attractive nuisance, you know damn well the shallow end was marked and even if you didn't, a reasonable 15 who lives at an apartment complex, let alone THE apartment complex, knows there is a shallow end of the pool. Lighting be damned.

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cranky (Oct 10, 2017 - 11:11 pm)

I'm not even going to waste my time reading all of this insanely long and tedious job posting. Whoever wrote it sounds like a manic, cheap nutcase. However, I hear the job market in southern California is awful, so this employer will likely still get hundreds of applications.

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physicssezno (Oct 11, 2017 - 12:27 am)

This poster is legit insane.

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mrlollipop (Oct 11, 2017 - 2:29 am)

I don't know....I know a bunch of UCLA and USC Law schol graduates doing PI....so I won't be surprised he find a bunch of USC and UCLA kids dieing for this job

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pauperesq (Oct 11, 2017 - 9:19 am)

The long-winded post and insistence on jumping through hoops doesn't bother me. Looks like he's been burned in the past by lazy associates so I can understand wanting to be careful about paying someone new.

It's the $40k/yr. base salary in SoCal that's offensive. This guy pretty much wants you to do all of his work in exchange for a salary that barely passes as livable.

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junkwired (Oct 11, 2017 - 9:45 am)

Eh, with student loans, it probably doesn't pass as livable at all. Unless livable means sharing a tiny apartment with several roommates and subsisting solely on beans and rice, and maybe potatoes.

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superttthero (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:12 am)

I saw it the other way around. The long-winded post shows he's unhinged and self-important, thinking that he is something special.

The $40K starting for a entry level seems fine if the bonus is fair and well structured.

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karlmarx (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:18 am)

40k in so cal is homeless

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pauperesq (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:22 am)

I read it as the bonus only kicks in for cases that you bring into the firm. For someone that has little or no experience and (likely) no name recognition in the community, that's really hard to do.

It would be more enticing if he was offering to pay a percentage of the cases that the associate worked on (regardless of origination) considering he wants the associate to work the file him/her self anyway.

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superttthero (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:24 am)

There is no mention of what the bonus is, but generally if it's of what you bring in, that's what the ad says. I think, complete guess here, this "bonus" is of cases settled or for work done on cases. I could be totally wrong.

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pauperesq (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:52 am)

Actually, looking at it again, he seems to suggest that the associate will get a cut of cases that s/he settles. Still, $40k in that market just isn't going to cut it.

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mrtor (Oct 11, 2017 - 9:55 am)

While he makes a lot of valid points, his overall apparent craziness will turn off the very applicants he is seeking.

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sanka (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:10 am)

"He brakes his neck"

Is it okay to conflate car crash injury with swimming pool injury in this significant strata of So.Cal. law???

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physicssezno (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:20 am)

If this person wins all these huge verdicts, so much that it’s not luck, then they should be able to pay one associate more than 40k lol. Dead give away.

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isthisit (Oct 11, 2017 - 12:20 pm)

https://youtu.be/RwVCJhN2QD4

They've got one law school 7 in the firm and some some whacky looking Asian.

40K a year to work for an insufferable douche isn't enough.

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superttthero (Oct 11, 2017 - 1:13 pm)

The prestige game in biglaw is a little too far in the other end, but I'm not hiring an attorney that makes $40k if I can help it.

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cranky (Oct 11, 2017 - 1:57 pm)

Who is the law school 7? I hate the way Case keeps holding his hands and moving them around like a sleazy minister. His wife/COO is showing too much cleavage and the whacked-out Asian female case manager with blonde hair is also wearing a top that is too low cut. Indian male paralegal looks like Gary Coleman. The office looks really impressive though. However, this job posting is absolutely ridiculous and shows that the owner could be suffering from mental illness, or at the very least has very grandiose ideas of himself.

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cacrimdefense (Oct 11, 2017 - 7:13 pm)

I think you've hit upon the key issue here, however, your judgement is off. Nicole is to be complimented on her display of ample cleavage.

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2ski (Oct 11, 2017 - 2:08 pm)

Looks like a Regis office variant. He must have only a couple of side offices with shared space in the center. A place that size would lease for $$$ near the airport.

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onehell (Oct 11, 2017 - 2:23 pm)

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this. Dude's dad is John Barnett, a pretty renowned criminal defense attorney who, among other famous cases, represented cops in the Rodney King case:

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-02-09/local/me-3634_1_rodney-king-beating

The son's firm, meanwhile has several cases with verdicts/settlements in the multiple millions. It basically sounds like his dad got him a job at the public defender where he cut his teeth and got trial experience, following which his dad fed him personal injury clients.

So, he may very well be the sort of guy who was born on third base but thinks he hit a home run (which is typical of many "entrepreneurs" who pretend to be self-made) but so what? Through his dad this guy probably has connections out the wazoo. If he hires someone and likes them, one way or another there could very well be potential to make a lot more than that 40k, and to learn quite a bit. Your boss, after all, probably has quite the rolodex, regardless of whether he earned or was born with it.

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ambulancechaser2013 (Oct 11, 2017 - 7:59 pm)

This and that and more of this. Most employers won’t care to help you out. You’ll work 50-60 hours a Week with another 5 self study. At the end this job will get you $70,000.00 at most. You will get some legit experience. No way on God’s green earth that you will try any cases in the first 2 years if ever. Can’t figure out if it’s a mill. 2 years then you’ll go a better place. It’s bearable if you have no better place.

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ambulancechaser2013 (Oct 11, 2017 - 8:13 pm)

Though I will say the salary is to a total joke for Orange County. This job only really works if you went to school on a full ride and no other expenses. I think that’s like 5-15% of all brand new Attorneys. Probably closer to 5%. So I read that there are USC and UCLA grads doing PI. Sure and probably some Georgetown people too. Guess what, those are unicorns. Most PI is done by Loyola, USD, Pepperdine, or Southwestern. Same story with ID. This firm is offering a pittance. If you are PI obsessed (Like I am) you would take it straight out of law school. Thing is it’s no longer 2008-2012. The market is better. So he is looking at Southwestern, Chapman, La Verne, Whittier and cal bar schools. Sure he might get a Loyola, Pepperdine or USD Personal injury obsessed 25-28 year old newly minted Lawyer, though the salary is so low it will make most of them squeakmish. He is sellling the dream and in this market not everyone will buy it.

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vladharkonnen (Oct 11, 2017 - 10:58 pm)

"if you don't read non-fiction books, this isn't the job for you"
"if you've ever read anything by David Ball or Don Keenan that's a great place to start"

This guy seems like a real idiot (with a rich daddy). Sigh.

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bigbossman (Oct 11, 2017 - 11:19 pm)

I'll pump the "brakes" on responding thank you. Can tell they value good writing. I'm picturing a nice Jeff Lewis type.

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2ski (Oct 12, 2017 - 10:10 am)

This ad strikes me as someone with their feet on the desk dictating ad copy rather actually composing on a keyboard. just sayin.

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fettywap (Oct 12, 2017 - 11:00 am)

If you spell wants as "want's," maybe this is the best you can do.

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confused1l93 (Oct 12, 2017 - 3:32 pm)

For a completely useless fresh law grad with no experience, this job is fine. Unfortunately, it's the student debt that makes life suuuuck for most grads. Person who starts here will probably able to lateral into another job that pays a lot more very quickly. Also, most of you are talking about the possibility of bringing in PI cases. You do NOT need experience, pedigree, or prestige to do this. Have you seen the type of people that run cases for pi mills? Absolute scumbags.

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mtbislife (Oct 12, 2017 - 5:58 pm)

All of you need to stop saying that 40k is fine, its not fine. Being in your late 20s and making 40k has to be incredibly demoralizing. Even useless liberal artists can get jobs for 30-40k straight out of UG and work up to higher salaries instead instead of wasting 3.5 years on law school and accumulating all that debt to work well over 40 hours a week and not even get health insurance in many instances.

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triplesix (Oct 12, 2017 - 7:09 pm)

Titcr.

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anothernjlawyer (Oct 13, 2017 - 11:32 am)

Hey can anybody review my "homework assignments" before I submit them?

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