Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

quitting advice?

Any advice on you have successfully navigated a sensitive re warfrat11/05/17
How many clients cases are under your name as attorney of re esquire13811/05/17
about 5. transactional but very small office. I am young a warfrat11/05/17
Just make sure you get your name off those cases. Trust me esquire13811/05/17
Wrap up/withdraw from all outstanding matters. Then peace ou isthisit11/05/17
Do you plan to work in the same town? esquire13811/05/17
yes. I will be working in the same town. Not a big city. warfrat11/06/17
I stopped giving people advice a long time ago. wutwutwut11/05/17
yes, i plan to work in the same town. they def badmouth fo warfrat11/05/17
Can you ask for the vacation time immediately? If so, do it. esquire13811/05/17
I know and once worked for a similar firm locally. The attor mrtor11/06/17
Double. mrtor11/06/17
Yeah a month's notice is insane. I always tell colleagues if cocolawyer11/06/17
Plenty of good advice, and you plan is solid, but be ready w toooldtocare11/06/17
Not your main point I know, but worth noting that there's no onehell11/06/17
Thanks that's great advice. You summed up my apprehension: warfrat11/06/17
Try to find a way to qualify for unemployment in your state esquire13811/06/17
I don't think I'd fall within in a "Quit Exception" either w warfrat11/06/17
warfrat (Nov 5, 2017 - 11:35 am)

Any advice on you have successfully navigated a sensitive resignation?
I have something lined up, but don't want to share it with current employer, additionally taking something healthy time
off (1 month) in the interim.
Things have been rocky lately, so I'm trying my best to keep in professional and not go into the "issues" causing me to leave.
As my Employment Atty friend told me, "your resignation is "goodbye" - nothing more"
Interestingly, I also have a letter I signed agreeing to give the 30 day notice which I believe runs contrary to the at-will doctrine, but
I'm going to honor it to hopefully generate some goodwill and I do believe leaving them with anything else will leave them in a lurch with
everyone i have going on.
Any advice or those with similar experiences would be appreciated, Thanks

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esquire138 (Nov 5, 2017 - 11:48 am)

How many clients cases are under your name as attorney of record?

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warfrat (Nov 5, 2017 - 11:58 am)

about 5. transactional but very small office.
I am young and haven't been there long (15 months) I think i was hired partially
because they thought I would provide stability for the long-term.

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esquire138 (Nov 5, 2017 - 12:37 pm)

Just make sure you get your name off those cases. Trust me on this.

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isthisit (Nov 5, 2017 - 1:54 pm)

Wrap up/withdraw from all outstanding matters. Then peace out of there.

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esquire138 (Nov 5, 2017 - 2:12 pm)

Do you plan to work in the same town?

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warfrat (Nov 6, 2017 - 8:25 pm)

yes. I will be working in the same town. Not a big city.

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wutwutwut (Nov 5, 2017 - 3:03 pm)

I stopped giving people advice a long time ago.

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warfrat (Nov 5, 2017 - 5:46 pm)

yes, i plan to work in the same town.
they def badmouth former employees and turnover is high (of course it has nothing to do with firm culture according to them)
things have been rocky of late, so it may turn into "I quit" - "No your fired" My goal is to 1) ensure i get all my accrued vacation paid out, almost a month's salary and 2) avoid getting into why I made my decision and re-litigating past conflicts.

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esquire138 (Nov 5, 2017 - 8:10 pm)

Can you ask for the vacation time immediately? If so, do it. Same with sick days or any other benefits. Come up with reasonable reasons like the Holidays (they are coming up)

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mrtor (Nov 6, 2017 - 8:54 am)

I know and once worked for a similar firm locally. The attorney who replaced me quit as well. He tried to pursue his accrued benefits pay -- they told him to pound sand. When he pursued it further, he was called in for a meeting to "discuss things." The actual topic of the meeting? His allegedly fraudulent billing practices while at the firm. Unfortunately for said attorney, there was a permissive culture at the firm that allowed concurrent billing on files. They would rack up 12-16 hour billing days when traveling across the state for hearings. Who knows if the owner was really ready to report the attorney, especially when it occurred at his own firm, but it was enough to effectively scare the kid off.

The attorney, however, tracked down all the former associates he could find (based on who had used his firm computer, who had signed things, etc.) to tell us his sob story. The guy was a wreck -- might have even been drunk when he called me mid-day at my new firm. Preached the injustices of what he had gone through and how he was considering suing the owner. It was a solid 30 min conversation/therapy session. He never did anything. Still unemployed last I knew. I heard he had put on a ton of weight and was almost always disheveled now. One of my buddies knew the guy before this job and he was totally different. Left a cushy state gig for this BS. It broke him.

Sometimes its best just to walk away.

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mrtor (Nov 6, 2017 - 8:54 am)

Double.

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cocolawyer (Nov 6, 2017 - 12:29 pm)

Yeah a month's notice is insane. I always tell colleagues if your going to go quit for whatever reason, make sure all your affairs are in order. Make sure you have all samples of work product on a flash drive in your pocket. Make sure you have taken all personal effects from your office. Make sure you know how much accrued vacation time you get for your last check. Likely your "I quit" will turn into "this is your last day."

Regardless I would only give them the standard two weeks. The toxic environment of a month working at a place that knows you are leaving would be horrific.

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toooldtocare (Nov 6, 2017 - 10:27 am)

Plenty of good advice, and you plan is solid, but be ready with a plan B if the response is "you're fired." You can't plan on rational thinking from your employer.

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onehell (Nov 6, 2017 - 11:40 am)

Not your main point I know, but worth noting that there's nothing contrary to employment at-will about employers asking for 30 day notice. It's not like they would have grounds to sue you if you just stopped showing up one day (though your clients might have cause for a bar complaint in such a circumstance). That's all that at-will means. It means you can quit at any time and they can fire you at any time; it doesn't mean that such decisions are without consequence: If you leave without following policy they penalize you with lost PTO and a bad reference, and if they fire you without sufficient cause they're on the hook for unemployment. That's the deal. You can't force an at-will employee to stay, and you can't force an at-will employer to act fairly (except for EEO/discrimination stuff). You can, however, make sure there are incentives for both sides to act fairly, to have policies, and

Of course they might waive the notice and tell you to just leave, and if they're really immature they'll try to retroactively come up with a reason to call it a for-cause termination.

In my state at least, provisions like these in employee handbooks are treated as wages. There's no requirement that employers pay out unused PTO, but if they DO have such a policy, then that policy is binding. Not because it changes the at-will relationship, but because it is part of what they agreed to pay and what you agreed to accept.

No way you can predict how they'll respond to a resignation. Sure they might try to retroactively find a way to call it a termination for cause, but that is why you keep documentation of the employer's departure policy, your compliance with it, and your satisfactory performance up to date you tendered resignation. If they refuse to pay out the PTO despite such documentation, it may be an unpaid wage claim.

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warfrat (Nov 6, 2017 - 8:25 pm)

Thanks that's great advice.
You summed up my apprehension: the unknown of how they are going to react. (especially when partners are already volatile)

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esquire138 (Nov 6, 2017 - 11:49 am)

Try to find a way to qualify for unemployment in your state

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warfrat (Nov 6, 2017 - 8:23 pm)

I don't think I'd fall within in a "Quit Exception" either way, I have another job lined up after taking some time off to travel.
I just don't want to share where I'm going with my current employer.

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