Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Steinle's killer found not guilty of murder

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/us/ka te-steinle-murder-trial-v notreallyalawyer11/30/17
How would you feel as her family? She died in dad's arms. T trijocker11/30/17
Her last words were, “daddy, help me.” tedandlisa12311/30/17
I never believed he was guilty of murder, but I don't unders guyingorillasuit11/30/17
Because it's a liberal state run by insane people with insan notreallyalawyer11/30/17
"insane people"? Do you mean that these "insane people" was newyorkcity12/01/17
Brilliant ad hominem attack as your counter argument notreallyalawyer12/01/17
Still true though haha. cocolawyer12/01/17
notreallyalawyer would recognize a brilliant argument when h newyorkcity12/02/17
I haven't read much about the story, but explain to me how w notreallyalawyer12/02/17
That defendant wasn't charged with manslaughter. But my rea newyorkcity12/02/17
"defendant wasn't charged with manslaughter." Unless yo inho2solo12/03/17
It seemed pretty obvious to me why the verdict came out this david6198311/30/17
Our juries are a lot less "leftist" than they were 10 years guyingorillasuit11/30/17
What GIGS said. Jurors out here are very much like those els cacrimdefense11/30/17
Here's a local discussion on the verdict: https://www.red guyingorillasuit11/30/17
Trump already is trying to sick the doj on him with fedcharg esquire13812/01/17
Its easy to find why murder wasn't found. Murder is an inten cocolawyer12/01/17
Under the facts as described ITT, it seems stupid for them t inho2solo12/01/17
Very possible. I was a prosecutor for several years and trie porochi12/03/17
The jury instructions should had clearly stated the lesser i notreallyalawyer12/03/17
I wonder in the Cali Gov will pardon the weapons charge too, esquire13812/01/17
I think the public defender and Matt Gonzalez in particular shitlawsf12/01/17
The political bias in this thread is pretty amazing. When trickydick12/01/17
You have to agree that if the laws were followed, Kate Stein notreallyalawyer12/01/17
The point of our system is to prevent some dude who gets arr guyingorillasuit12/01/17
Who's to say someone else might not have found that gun wrap shitlawsf12/02/17
Can't say I've been following this but lots of assumptions a loblawyer12/03/17
oakland might be "working class" but it's still run by insan notreallyalawyer12/03/17
California is by far the best place to live in this country cocolawyer12/03/17
"I Saw the Kate Steinle Murder Trial Up Close. The Jury Didn legalace12/07/17

notreallyalawyer (Nov 30, 2017 - 8:18 pm)

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/us/kate-steinle-murder-trial-verdict/index.html

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trijocker (Nov 30, 2017 - 8:44 pm)

How would you feel as her family? She died in dad's arms.
The defendant crossed over the border six times.
Then he just found a bag on a bench containing a gun which ricocheted off Steinle.
This is a travesty of justice.
Why wasn't he found guilty of manslaughter?

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tedandlisa123 (Nov 30, 2017 - 10:12 pm)

Her last words were, “daddy, help me.”

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guyingorillasuit (Nov 30, 2017 - 8:51 pm)

I never believed he was guilty of murder, but I don't understand why he wasn't convicted of involuntary manslaughter.

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notreallyalawyer (Nov 30, 2017 - 8:54 pm)

Because it's a liberal state run by insane people with insane jurors. If he had smoked a cigarette they would have given him 10 years for that.

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newyorkcity (Dec 1, 2017 - 12:00 pm)

"insane people"? Do you mean that these "insane people" wasted 7 years and hundreds of thousands for a job that a high school graduate could do?

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notreallyalawyer (Dec 1, 2017 - 12:03 pm)

Brilliant ad hominem attack as your counter argument

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cocolawyer (Dec 1, 2017 - 3:03 pm)

Still true though haha.

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newyorkcity (Dec 2, 2017 - 10:21 am)

notreallyalawyer would recognize a brilliant argument when he sees one. Have you been applying this insight all of your life? From your assessment of your career to your assessment of California juries?

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notreallyalawyer (Dec 2, 2017 - 10:38 am)

I haven't read much about the story, but explain to me how what happened wasn't at least manslaughter? Try to respond without an ad hominem attack. Thanks.

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newyorkcity (Dec 2, 2017 - 11:55 am)

That defendant wasn't charged with manslaughter. But my real point is that someone who is foolish enough to waste 7 years to obtain a high school level job is also foolish enough to believe that a Russian supported billionaire is interested in helping poor fools. After you wasted hundreds of thousands on law school, did you attend Trump University too? Best of luck, bra.

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inho2solo (Dec 3, 2017 - 8:48 pm)

"defendant wasn't charged with manslaughter."


Unless you're just picking verbal nits for some unknown reason, according to news reports he was - he was charged with involuntary manslaughter.

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david61983 (Nov 30, 2017 - 8:54 pm)

It seemed pretty obvious to me why the verdict came out this way. The jury was probably a bunch of lefties and the defense attorney played the Trump card perfectly.

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guyingorillasuit (Nov 30, 2017 - 9:18 pm)

Our juries are a lot less "leftist" than they were 10 years ago. Most of the traditional lefties were forced out by the cost of housing, and were replaced by techies, who come from all over the map, geographically and politically. Also, I have not heard of the Trump card being played at trial. I doubt the judge would ever allow it to be played.

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cacrimdefense (Nov 30, 2017 - 9:34 pm)

What GIGS said. Jurors out here are very much like those elsewhere. Most are trying to hear the truth.

As to any possible remarks about Trump, I doubt they would've been allowed in.

I always thought intent would be difficult to prove in this case. What possible reason would that worthless illegal have for killing Steinle?

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guyingorillasuit (Nov 30, 2017 - 9:58 pm)

Here's a local discussion on the verdict:

https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/7gr6lb/not_guilty_verdict_reached_in_kate_steinle_murder/

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esquire138 (Dec 1, 2017 - 3:05 pm)

Trump already is trying to sick the doj on him with fedcharges. Watch it get dismissed due to trump tampering.

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cocolawyer (Dec 1, 2017 - 3:05 pm)

Its easy to find why murder wasn't found. Murder is an intent crime and the bullet ricocheted and hit her off a ricochet, after he picked a weapon off the floor and it went off. I think the prosecution probably overreached and tried to paint him as this monster and the facts didn't indicate that.

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inho2solo (Dec 1, 2017 - 4:26 pm)

Under the facts as described ITT, it seems stupid for them to have brought the murder charge.

I wonder if the refusal to find even the invol manslaughter was in some way a jury reaction in distaste of the dumb attempt to convict for murder.

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porochi (Dec 3, 2017 - 10:18 am)

Very possible. I was a prosecutor for several years and tried homicide cases. Sounds like the prosecution went all in on a dubious murder charge and didn't spend much effort convincing the jury that they could find him guilty of the lesser included manslaughter charge.

So the jury didn't seriously consider manslaughter because the prosecution didn't. The outcome could have been different if the prosecution had focused solely on manslaughter. Under these facts I would not have charged him with murder, I would have gone with manslaughter only. You lose credibility when you overcharge and when prosecuting, credibility is everything.

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notreallyalawyer (Dec 3, 2017 - 10:50 am)

The jury instructions should had clearly stated the lesser included charge of manslaughter . It was there and they refused to convict an obvious case of manslaughter . He also fired three shots

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esquire138 (Dec 1, 2017 - 8:14 pm)

I wonder in the Cali Gov will pardon the weapons charge too, you know, cuz he's an illegal and they are magic, or whatever.

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shitlawsf (Dec 1, 2017 - 8:39 pm)

I think the public defender and Matt Gonzalez in particular did a fantastic job. The San Francisco Public Defender's office is the best in the country. There were a million ways for the defense to lose that case and probably only one way to win it.

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trickydick (Dec 1, 2017 - 9:03 pm)

The political bias in this thread is pretty amazing.

Whenever any Californian does something a Trump supporter doesn’t like, all Californians are radical leftists.

Whenever you point out that California has the most millionaires or that California has more of its residents volunteer for military duty than any other state, then the Trump supporters point out that there are a lot of right wing voters in the state and that not all Californians are liberal.

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notreallyalawyer (Dec 1, 2017 - 9:18 pm)

You have to agree that if the laws were followed, Kate Steinle would still be alive. The guy who killed her was deported multiple times and california was protecting him. he even admitted he went to SF because he knew they would protect him. NOw someone is dead because of this.

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guyingorillasuit (Dec 1, 2017 - 11:18 pm)

The point of our system is to prevent some dude who gets arrested for a drunk in public from being deported, when he's been here for 20 years and has a wife and kids. Sending him to a place he barely knows, and leaving the kids without a father when all he's done is have a few beers outside is inhumane.

On the other hand, our system is not supposed to shield multiple felons from deportation. This is where the system and I part company. There has to be a modicum of discretion, and our Sheriff should be able to get rid of the really bad dudes.

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shitlawsf (Dec 2, 2017 - 8:37 pm)

Who's to say someone else might not have found that gun wrapped in a towel or shirt and picked it up and caused it to accidentally go off, ricocheting off the sidewalk and hitting that woman? Who's more at fault? A park service cop driving to Oregon from somewhere else who just so happened to stop in San Francisco en route who forgot to secure his weapon? The miscreant who burglarized his vehicle and stole and stashed it? The manufacturer who made this weapon that didn't have a safety and came equipped with a notorious hair trigger? Congress for failing to put in place any regulations governing such tricky weapons? The park service for putting such a weapon in service? Or only the Sheriff for not honoring ICE holds?

Everybody has an opinion. So few know the facts.

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loblawyer (Dec 3, 2017 - 5:45 pm)

Can't say I've been following this but lots of assumptions about Cali here. Personally I consider both LA and SF playgrounds for the young and rich; the latter especially increasingly reviled by the rest of us and it's working class neighbor Oakland.

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notreallyalawyer (Dec 3, 2017 - 5:49 pm)

oakland might be "working class" but it's still run by insane SJW type liberals. Violence rampant on BART, liberals looking the other way. Califoria is a liberal sesspool. They tax the hell out of everything, they ban everything they hate, then call themselves tolerant.

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cocolawyer (Dec 3, 2017 - 11:18 pm)

California is by far the best place to live in this country and the fifth largest economy in the world. Live in Idaho and widdle or tip cows.

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legalace (Dec 7, 2017 - 12:00 am)

"I Saw the Kate Steinle Murder Trial Up Close. The Jury Didn’t Botch It."

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/12/06/kate-steinle-murder-trial-jury-didnt-botch-216016

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