Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Career dilemma...

I'm a 2017 JD grad who is currently clerking for a judge. In dharamsala02/02/18
Dude, just take the job in Alaska and stop posting. Done. becksquire02/02/18
And screw over my host org? I don't want to get a bad reput dharamsala02/02/18
If they bad mouth you for wanting to make a living and not b nycatt02/06/18
That is what I am leaning towards! The ED still hasn't resp dharamsala02/09/18
Step 1: Become an adjunct professor Step 2: ? Step 3: Prof trollfeeder02/02/18
Adjuncts make like $3000 a semester. Not a livable salary. dharamsala02/02/18
But it would make your mother proud. trollfeeder02/02/18
I need to eat and put a roof over my as well, not to mention dharamsala02/02/18
You need to take the position in Alaska. At this point in yo trickydick02/02/18
I'm just concerned about burning bridges with my host organi dharamsala02/02/18
How is this even a decision? Take the Alaska job and run. joshdoctson02/02/18
Right, but I'm just concerned about uprooting my life, movin dharamsala02/02/18
How is that uprooting your life then? It's been more like a joecoder02/02/18
I totally understand. It's just that I'm 30 and I want to s dharamsala02/02/18
An added wrinkle is that even if I pass the UBE, if I waive dharamsala02/02/18
You have a habit of leaving out really important information wolfman02/02/18
"I would still say go, you're only young once" I'm 30, lo dharamsala02/02/18
You missed the round of funding, you yourself write that it thirdtierlaw02/02/18
"So unless they are offering you a backup plan if they don't dharamsala02/02/18
Also, I didn't go to a "bad law school". If you look at Law dharamsala02/02/18
Ahh yes, your typical M.O. people tell you what you don't wa thirdtierlaw02/03/18
I just don’t want to screw over my host org when they expe dharamsala02/03/18
Did you make it clear to the Alaska fellowship that you aren jackofspeed02/02/18
Yes, Alaska, like NJ, is a UBE state. I told the interviewe dharamsala02/02/18
Didn't know that sillydood02/10/18
Accept the Ak fellowship before they offer it to someone els justdoingok02/03/18
What are the C&F issues? How serious? This is all moot if yo therover02/03/18
1) traffic tickets that I paid off (2) 2) academic discipli dharamsala02/03/18
(1) is not an issue. (2) should be surmountable. What are th loblawyer02/03/18
"What are the circumstances behind (3)" I was fired from dharamsala02/03/18
The OP called the dean of her law school an “insufferable downwardslope02/09/18
No I see a free therapist at a nonprofit. dharamsala02/09/18
I don't see anything wrong with that... The dean is useless triplesix02/09/18
All of this is hilarious! Traffic tickets???? "God" forbid sunset702/07/18
I was kicked out of my first law school for disciplinary iss dharamsala02/09/18
Don't overthink this - you should take the AK fellowship. As uknownvalue02/03/18
Right, but wouldn't it be unethical to accept the Alaska fel dharamsala02/03/18
In other words, should I take a non-legal job while characte dharamsala02/03/18
What is the nature of the fellowship? Is a license literally loblawyer02/03/18
The job description lists Alaska bar membership or eligibili dharamsala02/03/18
It would be unethical to take any job requiring a bar member sunset702/07/18
Stay where you are. Like you said, you don't want to burn an dieter02/03/18
That's the opposite of what everyone else is saying ITT. dharamsala02/03/18
But it's what you want to hear. I am validating your decisio dieter02/03/18
The thing is, I'm old as hell (30) and it's about time that dharamsala02/03/18
Dieter is obviously being sarcastic. Also, you're young, get loblawyer02/03/18
A little part of me dies when I see people my age on posting dharamsala02/03/18
Maybe you should decide to be duchess, and be paid for your dieter02/03/18
Opal gonna Opal. trollfeeder02/03/18
Maybe. But you gotta admit she's like 10x more focused now wutwutwut02/03/18
Should I hold off on accepting legal job offers until I have dharamsala02/03/18
Every single time you post this question you get the exact s thirdtierlaw02/04/18
Right but the job description requires someone who is alread dharamsala02/04/18
You know what would be a good use of your time while your pr joecoder02/04/18
Right but the job requires licensure. The description explic dharamsala02/04/18
Yet the woman who hired you knows you haven't even taken the thirdtierlaw02/04/18
I was just shocked that she offered me the job in the first dharamsala02/04/18
I think a defining characteristic of opal is a manic laser-f 3lol02/04/18
It might help others in a similar situation. Lots of folks dharamsala02/04/18
Dharamsala has asked about being a court interpreter, libra martinvannostrand02/04/18
I think it’s a legitimate concern if you can’t meet the dharamsala02/04/18
https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/ comments/7uushv/career_di martinvannostrand02/04/18
You've gotten a lot of good advice on this thread. You attem dieter02/04/18
I have to appear in court for this job...that's exactly what dharamsala02/04/18
Just apply for the everfukking job, and let them worry about dieter02/04/18
Wolfman even said, "I'll let other folks talk about ethics, dharamsala02/04/18
Yes, I said this, but I also said that on the balance if you wolfman02/05/18
I find you to be perplexing. To say the least. notiers02/04/18
Amen. There has to be some mental illness behind her constan dieter02/05/18
Bottom line: If you can't make it in NY, NJ or Penn, you ca jeffm02/04/18
What is your rationale for this, given that it's opposite to dharamsala02/04/18
Look at the populations in those 3 areas. They are large en jeffm02/05/18
So you're saying that I just hold out for a job in NY/NJ? dharamsala02/05/18
If that's where you want to live, why not? Just work hard t jeffm02/05/18
Dharamsala, you mentioned settling down and get married. shuiz02/04/18
Pretty sure everyone is telling you to go to Alaska because notiers02/04/18
She cross posted to TLS, because she obviously didn't receiv trollfeeder02/05/18
Indecision is just as bad if not worse than sticking with ba ugly02/06/18
The managing attorney didn't give me a hard and fast deadlin dharamsala02/06/18
opal, here's a simple question: what do YOU want to do? pauperesq02/06/18
I mean, ideally I'd like to work in NJ, but I'm fine with mo dharamsala02/06/18
Is Finkel Einhorn? Is dharamsala notreallyalawyer? jd4hire02/06/18
dharamsala and notreallyalawyer sound like the perfect coupl blackholelaw02/06/18
Are you interested in dating men? Alaska would be a plus o doublefriedchicken02/06/18
The odds are good, but the goods are odd in Alaska. dieter02/06/18
arranged marriage, not dating. dharamsala02/06/18
How old are you? If you're much over 30 it's time to pic dietcoke02/06/18
I just turned 30. dharamsala02/06/18
This poster blows me away--I myself have provided advice on dilemma201802/06/18
I definitely want to practice law, no question. I was just i dharamsala02/06/18
My last bit of advice and I've mentioned it previously, but jd4hire02/06/18
Yeah, I'm trying not to freak out. dharamsala02/06/18
Everyone should be giving props to OP, she is clearly a cut nighthawk02/06/18
NRAL is probably why she is on here and TLS asking questions downwardslope02/06/18
Shantideva has blown up TLS in the last day. If she's trying trollfeeder02/06/18
To be fair, NRAL may go on an interview when he is able to a martinvannostrand02/06/18
If by “access” you mean agonize over whether it fits pro downwardslope02/06/18
Do what YOU want to do and what feels right for you. Unless justdoingok02/06/18
I did not get the offer in writing; I did email the ED of th dharamsala02/06/18
I see. You should work on getting that offer first before b justdoingok02/06/18
Makes sense, shouldn't put the cart before the horse. dharamsala02/06/18
i.e. you might not pass the bar and all of this will be naug sunset702/07/18
I'd get another bite at the apple in July though. dharamsala02/07/18
Haha...you should really go into it with the mindset that yo sunset702/07/18
***Totally missed the "haven't passed bar yet". Absofreaking dilemma201802/07/18
I'm hard at work and while I'm apprehensive, I'm not too wor dharamsala02/07/18
Well from what I have scanned across the thread, the whole C dilemma201802/07/18
1. As long as you disclose your bar status it is not unethic retard02/08/18
"However, I would not recommend that YOU take this job. Give dharamsala02/08/18
Also, it's in southeastern Alaska, where the climate is mild dharamsala02/08/18
What about the day light situation? That is going to mess wi retard02/08/18
This is not in northern Alaska where there would be months/w dharamsala02/08/18
I think you are overestimating the amount of daylight you’ retard02/08/18
A "very rural county" anywhere in the continental US is not williamdrayton02/08/18
Not currently. I'm working in a small, rural, socially cons dharamsala02/08/18
What does being socially conservative have to do with anythi retard02/12/18
Juneau, one of the southernmost places in AK, during Winter ugly02/09/18
That sounds incredible. Are you currently practicing law in dharamsala02/09/18

dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 6:29 pm)

I'm a 2017 JD grad who is currently clerking for a judge. In late spring 2017, I procured a host organization for project-based public interest fellowships (Equal Justice Works, Skadden, etc.) in my desired state (one of PA/NJ/NY). I spent summer 2017 working closely with with the host organization to develop a very detailed proposal. I submitted the application in September 2017.

In January 2018, I was interviewed by a potential corporate sponsor for Equal Justice Works, and unfortunately, I found out today that the sponsor did not select to fund my project (I thought the interview went very well...I guess not). Apparently there were over 400 applications fo ~77 spots. I was informed that I have the opportunity to interview with different sponsors in the coming months, should one of Equal Justice Works' additional sponsors be interested in funding my project. All fellows will be selected by May 2018...time is running out to be picked up by sponsors. This position is for two years and pays ~$57,000 a year plus good benefits.

Yesterday I had a phone interview for another fellowship in rural Alaska, and at the end of the interview, the managing attorney told me on the spot that the position is mine and that she'd love to have me at the organization. This is a one-year fellowship but can be extended to two more terms. While I was thrilled to get an acceptance, I'm not too keen on moving across the country and re-starting my life from scratch in a state I've never stepped foot in, let alone have family/professional/school ties to. I'm not sure about the exact salary, but it's in all likelihood lower than the EJW fellowship.

The host organization for my Equal Justice Works project-the one in my desired state where I am sitting for the bar-has invested a lot of time and energy into me as a candidate (i.e. reviewing and helping to draft parts of my project application, critiquing my personal statement and so on), and I don't want to screw them over after building a relationship. I want to practice in that state for the long-term, and the legal community is small and close-knit and it would be unwise to burn bridges. However, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Should I continue to wait until May 2018 and see if another corporate sponsor decides to interview me for Equal Justice Works, or should I swallow my pride and accept the job in rural Alaska and move on, even though I don't really want to live there in the long run?

Reply Like (0)
becksquire (Feb 2, 2018 - 6:42 pm)

Dude, just take the job in Alaska and stop posting. Done.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 6:46 pm)

And screw over my host org? I don't want to get a bad reputation in the legal community I hope to work in permanently. On the other hand, a job is a job.

Reply Like (0)
nycatt (Feb 6, 2018 - 5:01 pm)

If they bad mouth you for wanting to make a living and not being unemployed, they probably aren't so great. Seriously, no one will bad mouth you and everyone will understand why you did what you did. If you want to work in the non-profit world, take the job. Go on an adventure.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 9, 2018 - 11:34 am)

That is what I am leaning towards! The ED still hasn't responded to my email re: timeframe for accepting the offer.

Reply Like (0)
trollfeeder (Feb 2, 2018 - 6:48 pm)

Step 1: Become an adjunct professor
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Profit

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 6:50 pm)

Adjuncts make like $3000 a semester. Not a livable salary.

Reply Like (0)
trollfeeder (Feb 2, 2018 - 6:53 pm)

But it would make your mother proud.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 7:00 pm)

I need to eat and put a roof over my as well, not to mention pay off car and student loans.

Anyone have constructive advice?

Reply Like (0)
trickydick (Feb 2, 2018 - 8:34 pm)

You need to take the position in Alaska. At this point in your burgeoning legal career, you’re in dire need of the experience. For the good of your future, take the position.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 9:00 pm)

I'm just concerned about burning bridges with my host organization. We spent several months putting the project together. Plus, there I could be scooped up by other sponsors between February and June.

Reply Like (0)
joshdoctson (Feb 2, 2018 - 8:43 pm)

How is this even a decision? Take the Alaska job and run.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 9:02 pm)

Right, but I'm just concerned about uprooting my life, moving across the country, and starting from scratch. I have no family, school, or professional ties to Alaska, and after the one year is up, I don't plan to stay there.

Reply Like (0)
joecoder (Feb 2, 2018 - 9:09 pm)

How is that uprooting your life then? It's been more like a year abroad.

Then you come home with (presumably) experience and skills.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 9:14 pm)

I totally understand. It's just that I'm 30 and I want to settle down soon. I don't want to give birth ever, so there's no biological clock thing to worry about, but I really feel like it's time in my life to lay down some roots and settle down.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 9:37 pm)

An added wrinkle is that even if I pass the UBE, if I waive into Alaska I still have to go through a rigorous C&F process. Is it deceitful to take a job and not tell my supervisor that I'd likely experience a delay in licensure due to character issues? I'm genuinely curious.

Reply Like (0)
wolfman (Feb 2, 2018 - 9:45 pm)

You have a habit of leaving out really important information which makes it difficult for people to give you good advice. For example, you are not just a 2017 JD grad: you are a 2017 JD grad who has not yet taken the bar exam (are you still planning on Feb) and who has C&F issues that may prevent you from being admitted; you have also asked for advice about entering other graduate programs to pursue a career as a teacher or social worker.

I point this out not to beat you down but to say that for someone who is definitely planning to practice law and is certain to be admitted in her home state, the advice you are getting is good advice: unless you can somehow extend your clerkship, you should go to Alaska for a year to get some real legal experience (assuming they know you aren't admitted and are ok with it... or are you leaving that out only to get there and have them find out you cannot appear in any court?).

For you in your particular situation - I don't know. I would still say go, you're only young once, but not if being out there makes you crazy... and not if you don't want to be a lawyer anymore - legal experience has pretty much no value in other things...

EDIT: you just answered my question - it's as I thought. I'll let other folks talk about ethics, but if you have to be in court for your job all the time, and you can't appear in court - yeah, that could be a real problem, don't you think?. But will you have to be in court? Fed, state or tribal? That could make a difference - some of the tribal courts will let anyone appear... or are you filing paperwork with the Indian Health Service or something like that, in which case no one cares if or when you get admitted?)

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 10:18 pm)

"I would still say go, you're only young once"

I'm 30, lol. I'm not sure if that counts as young.

Yes, I definitely want to be a lawyer, no question.

"But will you have to be in court? Fed, state or tribal?"

The job entails operating a medical-legal partnership for the Native American community of a small coastal town. I'd be doing lots of filing paperwork with the Indian Health Service, SSI/SSDI (I don't think you need a law license to do SS disability work, but correct me if I'm wrong), public benefits, housing, special education, domestic violence, elder law, family law, and consumer law. I would be practicing in state and tribal court, and before administrative agencies

Reply Like (0)
thirdtierlaw (Feb 2, 2018 - 9:59 pm)

You missed the round of funding, you yourself write that it is extremely competitive to get grants. You graduated from a bad school and though you are doing a clerkship, it's not really considered a "prestigious" clerkship. You have the opportunity to get over the absolute hardest hurdle in this profession for someone with your pedigree, getting your first legal job that'll give you experience. This is a no brainer.

How many times have you seen people on here say that nonprofits look for people that have a demonstrable interest in public service. This fellowship will give you a leg up for every public interest job you apply for in the future.

It's also absurd to think you're burning bridges. They knew your position in life when they tagged along with you. They also know people need to eat. So unless they are offering you a backup plan if they don't get funding, they won't be surprised you left. Nonprofits churn out funding proposals as part of their everyday routine.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 10:22 pm)

"So unless they are offering you a backup plan if they don't get funding, they won't be surprised you left."

My law school offers a school-sponsored fellowship of six months. That is the back-up plan-I'd volunteer at the host org in NJ/PA/NY for six months, and my law school would be paying me. It's a bridge the gap kind of fellowship. I spoke to the public interest coordinator at my school and she said they're not competitive-everyone who applied for one last year got it. I know a grad of my law school who was permanently hired this way.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 11:00 pm)

Also, I didn't go to a "bad law school". If you look at Law School Transparency, over 75% of grads found full-time, long-term bar passage required jobs (this doesn't even include JD Advantage).

Reply Like (0)
thirdtierlaw (Feb 3, 2018 - 8:17 am)

Ahh yes, your typical M.O. people tell you what you don't want to hear and you decide to argue. My terrible school also has long term employment outcomes around those numbers, if I had attempted to leave my region of the country, I doubt anyone would give my resume a second look. I know a grad from my law school that is making a ton of money in big law and in fact he even transitioned into biglaw! So really everyone should pass on T10 schools and just go to my poor school instead!

But here, I'll do what you want. Pass on the door opening job. Keep your fingers cross that you get funding and then when it doesn't happen rely on the 6 months of pay from your your school. Clearly you know how to navigate the current legal market better than people who actually practice and actually are involved in hiring decisions.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 10:27 am)

I just don’t want to screw over my host org when they expended so much time and effort in putting together my application. I have four more months to be scooped by other sponsors.

Reply Like (0)
jackofspeed (Feb 2, 2018 - 10:29 pm)

Did you make it clear to the Alaska fellowship that you aren't admitted to the bar yet? Follow up with them if you didn't discuss it with them yet.

Otherwise, a real fellowship out the gate is a wonderful opportunity and a great future discussion point for your subsequent interviews for future jobs.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 2, 2018 - 10:32 pm)

Yes, Alaska, like NJ, is a UBE state. I told the interviewer that I'm sitting for NJ soon and that if I get a passing score, I could waive into Alaska.

Reply Like (0)
sillydood (Feb 10, 2018 - 6:38 pm)

Didn't know that

Reply Like (0)
justdoingok (Feb 3, 2018 - 9:40 am)

Accept the Ak fellowship before they offer it to someone else. Something you’ve gotten by yourself is more impressive than a fellowship offered by the school that anyone can get. Plus, you might enjoy working in AK. You said that you’ve never been there so you don’t know if you won’t like it. Nonetheless, employers will understand coming back to NJ/PA/NY after a year, given your history/roots here. And SSI work should be transferrable regardless what state you practice in (I could be wrong, I’ve never done it).

Reply Like (0)
therover (Feb 3, 2018 - 9:49 am)

What are the C&F issues? How serious? This is all moot if you can’t get admitted.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 10:24 am)

1) traffic tickets that I paid off (2)
2) academic discipline (for behavioral issues, not plagiarism/cheating)
3) fired from job
4) see a psychiatrist/therapist

Reply Like (0)
loblawyer (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:46 pm)

(1) is not an issue. (2) should be surmountable. What are the circumstances behind (3)? And as to (4), that should hardly be a barrier to entry in this field.

Oh, and please take the job. Sounds likes it's non profit gold and I think a place like Alaska may do you some good and introduce you to new experiences.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 3:13 pm)

"What are the circumstances behind (3)"

I was fired from an internship because I didn't know that I had to disclose to my supervisor that I was a board member of a 501(c)(3) non-profit entity operated by a prospective client, and he thought that this was a conflict on interest.

Is that a dealbreaker?

I'm definitely leaning towards taking the Alaska job after reading the responses in this thread. A bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush.

Reply Like (0)
downwardslope (Feb 9, 2018 - 2:30 pm)

The OP called the dean of her law school an “insufferable b****” and then I think she was kicked out.

Last I heard, her therapist is her mother.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 9, 2018 - 3:03 pm)

No I see a free therapist at a nonprofit.

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (Feb 9, 2018 - 5:37 pm)

I don't see anything wrong with that... The dean is useless welfare queen, OP did right calling out that grifter for what she is!

Reply Like (0)
sunset7 (Feb 7, 2018 - 12:45 am)

All of this is hilarious! Traffic tickets???? "God" forbid!! I was fired from Baskin Robbins, but somehow I managed to get barred in a notoriously difficult state.

This isn't a "career dilemma." This is a "I clearly can't make my own decisions and need more attention" problem.

Good luck working in a profession where nobody cares about your success.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 9, 2018 - 12:09 pm)

I was kicked out of my first law school for disciplinary issues. You don't think that would be an issue for C&F?

Reply Like (0)
uknownvalue (Feb 3, 2018 - 11:59 am)

Don't overthink this - you should take the AK fellowship. As you pointed out "there were over 400 applications for ~77 spots" for the EJW. If you get EJW funding before or during the AK project, then quit and move back for EJW. The EJW people will not take it personally that you took a firmer offer; if they do take it personally then they should have worked harder to get you funding. You will not be burning bridges by leaving for AK, but you will burn the bridge to meaningful legal work if you sit around unemployed because you can't make what should be a clear decision.

As far as living in AK, I have a friend in AK and it isn't nearly as bad as people think. Generally laid back lifestyle, lots of outdoor activity and local social clubs. People tend to hold lots of dinner parties as local restaurant food is not good.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 12:11 pm)

Right, but wouldn't it be unethical to accept the Alaska fellowship when I'm not even barred yet? I told her that I'm sitting for the UBE, but God only knows when I'll be sworn in. Shouldn't I be accepting offers once I have a license in hand and not beforehand?

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 12:32 pm)

In other words, should I take a non-legal job while character and fitness is pending to pay the bills (i.e teaching English abroad in Chile or Spain, Jesuit Volunteer Corps, Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc).

Reply Like (0)
loblawyer (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:50 pm)

What is the nature of the fellowship? Is a license literally needed for court appearances?

I assume they know your license is pending. If they are ecstatic to bring you on, doubt they care about this.

I think something is finally breaking your way and you are not used to that. I know from experience. Accept your good fortune and try to stop over thinking this.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:59 pm)

The job description lists Alaska bar membership or eligibility for Rule 43 waiver under "Qualifications". It also says, "The [redacted] Member will be an attorney authorized to practice in state and/or tribal court, and before administrative agencies." and "The [redacted] Member will be responsible for providing periodic trainings and presentations to providers at medical facilities, as well as for regularly consulting with medical providers." I'm assuming you need a license to appear in state/tribal court as well as before administrative agencies.

Reply Like (0)
sunset7 (Feb 7, 2018 - 12:47 am)

It would be unethical to take any job requiring a bar membership when you aren't yet barred. Seriously, how is this even a question?

Reply Like (0)
dieter (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:09 pm)

Stay where you are. Like you said, you don't want to burn any bridges. Never, ever take a chance with your career. Stasis is the safest course to ensure that nothing ever happens to you.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:13 pm)

That's the opposite of what everyone else is saying ITT.

Reply Like (0)
dieter (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:15 pm)

But it's what you want to hear. I am validating your decision of indecision. Keep asking what you should do, resisting all good advice, and remain where you are. It's the safest course.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:21 pm)

The thing is, I'm old as hell (30) and it's about time that I should settle down, get married, buy a house, adopt a cat, etc. None of those things can happen if I'm gallivanting across the country for a couple of years. The 6 month school-sponsored fellowship that pays $2000/month is pretty much a sure thing-everyone who applied for it last year got it. I personally know an alum who was permanently hired at the end of the six months.

I realize that it's a tough job market and beggars can't be choosers, but since the lady didn't even give me a firm deadline, why not sit on it and let it marinate?

Reply Like (0)
loblawyer (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:53 pm)

Dieter is obviously being sarcastic. Also, you're young, get this "old" thinking out of your head.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 2:55 pm)

A little part of me dies when I see people my age on posting pics on social media of getting settled, buying houses, etc. I feel like I'm so behind in the game of life (still a renter, no permanent job, unmarried, etc.) I live alone in a tiny one bedroom apartment with horrible Ikea college dorm room decor.

Reply Like (0)
dieter (Feb 3, 2018 - 3:12 pm)

Maybe you should decide to be duchess, and be paid for your existence. It was the best decision I ever made.

Reply Like (0)
trollfeeder (Feb 3, 2018 - 3:48 pm)

Opal gonna Opal.

Reply Like (0)
wutwutwut (Feb 3, 2018 - 9:50 pm)

Maybe. But you gotta admit she's like 10x more focused now than she was like 4 or 5 years ago.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 3, 2018 - 11:10 pm)

Should I hold off on accepting legal job offers until I have a law license in hand? If so, would teaching abroad in Chile or Spain for a few months be an OK use of my time while i wait out the character deliberation?

Or can I accept a position while admission is pending?

Reply Like (0)
thirdtierlaw (Feb 4, 2018 - 7:22 am)

Every single time you post this question you get the exact same answer. No. If you go teach abroad for a year the odds of you ever getting a legal job drops dramatically. You have no idea how long it'll take to get admitted. Alaska is a much less populated state than PA. Even if you're flagged, they could get you through C&F in less than 2 months, if you're flagged at all. You haven't even taken the bar exam yet. She offered you a job. She knows you are not allowed to practice yet and you'll still need to get admitted if you pass the bar.

Every state has some sort of rule allowing you to practice while awaiting admission. She will "supervise" your drafting.

Most people who graduate school with a job start at work months before they even get their bar results.

Or is this another one of your questions where you want the answer to be different so you can go teach English abroad guilt free?

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 10:12 am)

Right but the job description requires someone who is already admitted to practice.

FWIW, the Alaska bar application does not ask about academic discipline. So you’re right, I might get admitted earlier.

Reply Like (0)
joecoder (Feb 4, 2018 - 9:02 am)

You know what would be a good use of your time while your preferred jurisdiction sorts out your C&F?

Working a real legal job in Alaska.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 10:12 am)

Right but the job requires licensure. The description explicitly says it’s a qualification.

Reply Like (0)
thirdtierlaw (Feb 4, 2018 - 10:30 am)

Yet the woman who hired you knows you haven't even taken the bar yet. So I'm going to say that they don't care.

Job ads describe their ideal candidate. As has already been proven by getting the job offer, they'll take someone who just plans on getting admitted. I don't understand why you are pushing back on this point. Are you really positing that the woman who interviewed, and had the authority to offer you the job, does not know what the job requires and that she was lying when she told you that you were a good fit and offered you a job?

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 10:48 am)

I was just shocked that she offered me the job in the first place. I mean, I’m sure she was swamped with literally hundreds of applications from people who are actually licensed and can hit he ground running on day 1.

Reply Like (0)
3lol (Feb 4, 2018 - 1:53 am)

I think a defining characteristic of opal is a manic laser-focus on a singular idea for a short period of time.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 2:36 am)

It might help others in a similar situation. Lots of folks on here have C&F hiccups.

Reply Like (0)
martinvannostrand (Feb 4, 2018 - 11:03 am)

Dharamsala has asked about being a court interpreter, librarian, english teacher in Chile, anthropologist, and now doesn't want to take good advice about this fellowship in Alaska. She posts the exact same questions on reddit and gets similar advice, but refuses to accept it. She just posted a question there about Legal Aid careers, so I assume we'll see a thread here on that in a few hours.

Why even bother responding to her anymore?

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 11:16 am)

I think it’s a legitimate concern if you can’t meet the rudimentary qualifications of a job that accepted you. I am required to appear in state, tribal and administrative courts on a routine basis and cannot do so unless I have a license in hand.

Also I don’t have a reddit account with this name.

Reply Like (0)
martinvannostrand (Feb 4, 2018 - 11:21 am)

https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/7uushv/career_dilemmaneed_advice/

Reply Like (0)
dieter (Feb 4, 2018 - 11:22 am)

You've gotten a lot of good advice on this thread. You attempt to torpedo every good-faith suggestion people offer you, which is why I suggested that you should choose to be a princess.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 11:30 am)

I have to appear in court for this job...that's exactly what the job description says...I never told her (or any employer for that matter) that my admission would be delayed.

Reply Like (0)
dieter (Feb 4, 2018 - 2:00 pm)

Just apply for the everfukking job, and let them worry about whether you're qualified. Haysus-F-Keyrist, how the everfukking fukk did you get through lol skule? "Professor, I'm not certain that I am qualified to answer your Socratic question. Let us examine this issue instead." You're never going to make it as a lawyer if you can't figure out the most basic intuitive things like this.

Now go fetch me my espresso. I don't want to hear about whether you're qualified to do so - just do it Immediately.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 11:34 am)

Wolfman even said, "I'll let other folks talk about ethics, but if you have to be in court for your job all the time, and you can't appear in court - yeah, that could be a real problem, don't you think?'

I'll be the only person in this office and will be supervised remotely.

Reply Like (0)
wolfman (Feb 5, 2018 - 1:41 pm)

Yes, I said this, but I also said that on the balance if you want to be a lawyer, you should take the job... also, they know you haven't even taken the bar yet, and are presumably ok with waiting for you to be admitted.

Look, if you don't want to go to Alaska because it'll be cold and isolated, and instead you want to go abroad or stay in NJ, get married, get a cat, teach English or whatnot, there is nothing wrong with that.

But you seem to want people to tell you that doing all these things (which you are perfectly entitled to do, like any human being) is also the right choice for your career as a working lawyer. It isn't, and people, with few exceptions, aren't going to tell you what you want to hear.

I'm not pushing for you to go to Alaska, but that's because I have said repeatedly that I don't think you should be a lawyer. If you REALLY want to be one, the choice is obvious, IMHO. But you don't have to be a lawyer to live; plenty of people aren't lawyers, myself included.

Reply Like (0)
notiers (Feb 4, 2018 - 12:54 pm)

I find you to be perplexing. To say the least.

Reply Like (0)
dieter (Feb 5, 2018 - 9:05 am)

Amen. There has to be some mental illness behind her constant seeking of advice, only to reject every suggestion people make for her in good faith.

Reply Like (0)
jeffm (Feb 4, 2018 - 2:52 pm)

Bottom line: If you can't make it in NY, NJ or Penn, you can't make it anywhere. If you like where you are, pay your dues there.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 4, 2018 - 5:41 pm)

What is your rationale for this, given that it's opposite to what everyone else ITT says? Everyone else says to go to Alaska and never look back.

Reply Like (0)
jeffm (Feb 5, 2018 - 12:19 am)

Look at the populations in those 3 areas. They are large enough to let you have several career moves and/or hang a shingle. There is huge flexibility.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 5, 2018 - 1:23 pm)

So you're saying that I just hold out for a job in NY/NJ?

Reply Like (0)
jeffm (Feb 5, 2018 - 2:59 pm)

If that's where you want to live, why not? Just work hard to try to get whatever you want. If Alaska's your gig, go for it. As between the 2, I would think options are much more diverse in NJ/NY than Alaska.

Reply Like (0)
shuiz (Feb 4, 2018 - 9:35 pm)

Dharamsala, you mentioned settling down and get married.

Good luck with that.

And every single decision you'll ever have to make with your husband.

Reply Like (0)
notiers (Feb 4, 2018 - 9:39 pm)

Pretty sure everyone is telling you to go to Alaska because it’s the option furthest from civilization. Frankly, if there were a North Pole legal clinic, or adjunct position, or clerkship or any of the other 197 different things you’ve floated in other threads - I’d say go to the North Pole and simply never look back.

Reply Like (0)
trollfeeder (Feb 5, 2018 - 8:37 pm)

She cross posted to TLS, because she obviously didn't receive any advice here.

Reply Like (0)
ugly (Feb 6, 2018 - 9:50 am)

Indecision is just as bad if not worse than sticking with bad choices.

Goto Alaska. It's a US state, just like the 49 other states.

Unless you enjoy drama. Then you should continue arguing for and against both positions on the Interwebs, where our anonymous advice don't mean squat.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 10:46 am)

The managing attorney didn't give me a hard and fast deadline.

Reply Like (0)
pauperesq (Feb 6, 2018 - 11:35 am)

opal, here's a simple question: what do YOU want to do?

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 11:57 am)

I mean, ideally I'd like to work in NJ, but I'm fine with moving to Alaska for a year if I can't find anything better.

Reply Like (0)
jd4hire (Feb 6, 2018 - 1:35 pm)

Is Finkel Einhorn? Is dharamsala notreallyalawyer?

Reply Like (0)
blackholelaw (Feb 6, 2018 - 3:35 pm)

dharamsala and notreallyalawyer sound like the perfect couple

Reply Like (0)
doublefriedchicken (Feb 6, 2018 - 1:59 pm)

Are you interested in dating men? Alaska would be a plus on that front.

Reply Like (0)
dieter (Feb 6, 2018 - 3:41 pm)

The odds are good, but the goods are odd in Alaska.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:06 pm)

arranged marriage, not dating.

Reply Like (0)
dietcoke (Feb 6, 2018 - 2:33 pm)

How old are you?

If you're much over 30 it's time to pick a job and stick with it. It sounds like you've had your chance to explore/soul search, now it's time to stick with something.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 3:51 pm)

I just turned 30.

Reply Like (0)
dilemma2018 (Feb 6, 2018 - 3:48 pm)

This poster blows me away--I myself have provided advice on here as well.

Dharamsala:

You receive so much good insight and input from posters, they should bill you--seriously.

--First and foremost, YOU need to decide if you want to practice law. Many grads don't for various reasons. If the answer is no, then use your JD to explore different career paths even if it means a two year grad program to become a social worker, librarian, anthropologist.

--If you do want to practice law or at least try it, take the Alaska gig--gigs open doors for other gigs. You will get real insight into whether law is for you or not. At the very least, you have a unique resume builder to use for the next phase.

--30 is not old. Period. Many 30 year olds would love to be in your situation--you have a law degree, you are not tied down in a marriage or have kids. While those things are great if you want them and are ready, they can be problematic if you are still trying to figure out what you want to do professionally.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 3:54 pm)

I definitely want to practice law, no question. I was just investigating back-up plans if I fail C&F (i.e. social work, librarianship, anthropology). I will take the Alaska gig, but the executive director still has not answered my email re: a time-frame for accepting the offer.

I get it, beggars can't be choosers. But Jeffm suggested that I should be able to find something in NY/PA/NJ.

Reply Like (0)
jd4hire (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:17 pm)

My last bit of advice and I've mentioned it previously, but I will be as explicit as possible.

I had significant C&F issues with multiple arrests as a juvenile and adult. I also had an issue on my law school application not referencing a suspension in high school. My arrests were close to double digits and I always had multiple charges. I am embarrassed and ashamed of my past, but it's just that, the past. There is nothing that can be done to change it at this point. My arrests required that I receive mental health treatment for substance abuse. Those records were also part of my bar app. It was humiliating submitting that paperwork.

My biggest mistake in the period of my life around law school was worrying about C&F. And in retrospect, I spent way too much time, effort, and energy worrying about it. It gave me ulcers and made me overly anxious. It ate at me daily, non-stop.

Fast forward six years and I'm at a great firm and have been admitted to multiple states, multiple federal district courts, one circuit court of appeals, and am scheduled to be sworn into the U.S. Supreme Court (for show, no cases pending).

It's logical to be concerned about C&F, but don't let it consume you. Continue on with your life and make your decisions. Even if you don't pass C&F, you'll figure out a way to persevere.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:25 pm)

Yeah, I'm trying not to freak out.

Reply Like (0)
nighthawk (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:10 pm)

Everyone should be giving props to OP, she is clearly a cut above notreallyalawyer. She may end up doing legitimate lawyer work, be it in Alaska or otherwise. In contrast, notreallyalawyer is keeping the seat warm in the DC doc review circuit.

Reply Like (0)
downwardslope (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:22 pm)

NRAL is probably why she is on here and TLS asking questions daily. She does apply to jobs and get interviews that she attends. She is probably at least 4 cuts above NRAL.

Reply Like (0)
trollfeeder (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:51 pm)

Shantideva has blown up TLS in the last day. If she's trying not to freak out, I don't want to see a freak out... maybe it would involve throwing a table over and causing a scene.

Reply Like (0)
martinvannostrand (Feb 6, 2018 - 6:34 pm)

To be fair, NRAL may go on an interview when he is able to access his suit.

Reply Like (0)
downwardslope (Feb 6, 2018 - 8:58 pm)

If by “access” you mean agonize over whether it fits properly and then decide that it is unsuitable because it is too tight or too loose or has some other flaw, you might be correct.

Reply Like (0)
justdoingok (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:18 pm)

Do what YOU want to do and what feels right for you. Unless Jeffm agreed to indemnify you in the event you can't find anything in NY/PA/NJ, there's no need to weigh one opinion so heavily.

Here's a question, did you get the offer for the AK gig in writing after the call? If not, I would ask for one if you are going to hold off on accepting for a while.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:26 pm)

I did not get the offer in writing; I did email the ED of the org for one.

Reply Like (0)
justdoingok (Feb 6, 2018 - 4:27 pm)

I see. You should work on getting that offer first before beating yourself up on whether to accept.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 6, 2018 - 5:47 pm)

Makes sense, shouldn't put the cart before the horse.

Reply Like (0)
sunset7 (Feb 7, 2018 - 12:52 am)

i.e. you might not pass the bar and all of this will be naught. Maybe you should focus on passing the bar and then decide where your "future" lies. But what do I know...I am only a barred attorney practicing in a much more difficult jurisdiction...for many years.......(pats self on back)

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 7, 2018 - 12:53 am)

I'd get another bite at the apple in July though.

Reply Like (0)
sunset7 (Feb 7, 2018 - 1:08 am)

Haha...you should really go into it with the mindset that you will pass on the first try. Basically, study for the bar and stop complaining about what job you should take that is dependent on passing the bar.

Reply Like (0)
dilemma2018 (Feb 7, 2018 - 12:14 pm)

***Totally missed the "haven't passed bar yet". Absofreakinglutely focus on that aspect if you want to keep all options open. Many gigs doors slam shut like the gates of the Nightwatch without having your bar license. Your mission should you decide to accept it is to study, sleep, eat, repeat until you take and pass the BE.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 7, 2018 - 1:12 pm)

I'm hard at work and while I'm apprehensive, I'm not too worried about failing (scored in the mid-160s on the LSAT, so I'm low risk for failing both Feb and July). I'm actually freaking out more about the character and fitness thing.

Reply Like (0)
dilemma2018 (Feb 7, 2018 - 6:39 pm)

Well from what I have scanned across the thread, the whole CF thing is really out of your control now--you need to take a deep breath and stop fixating on it. As many of these posters have stated, many an attorney have become licensed with a less than stellar background. Focus on what you can control--if you are so anxious it is impacting your studying, contact your Bar Licensing division and see if they have any recommendations for securing letters if necessary.

Reply Like (0)
retard (Feb 8, 2018 - 12:02 pm)

1. As long as you disclose your bar status it is not unethical to take the job.

2. Normally I would advise someone in your position to take the position in Alaska. It’s practice experience in a cool place. At the very least you will get a cool story out of it, which may help you distinguish yourself from every other middle aged single attorney in the dating market (when you come home that is). Plus it will get you away from your mother, which I suspect would help your mental well being.

3. However, I would not recommend that YOU take this job. Given your mental health history, do you really think living in a frigid, isolated, rural environment where the daylight situation is known to wreak havoc on even the most balanced of individuals, thousands of miles from home, where you know nobody is a good idea?

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 8, 2018 - 1:03 pm)

"However, I would not recommend that YOU take this job. Given your mental health history, do you really think living in a frigid, isolated, rural environment where the daylight situation is known to wreak havoc on even the most balanced of individuals, thousands of miles from home, where you know nobody is a good idea?"

I mean, a job is a job. I currently live in a very rural county and I'm thriving.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 8, 2018 - 2:46 pm)

Also, it's in southeastern Alaska, where the climate is milder and more akin to the Pacific Northwest. It's not like Barrow, lol.

Reply Like (0)
retard (Feb 8, 2018 - 3:09 pm)

What about the day light situation? That is going to mess with your bipolar/depression big time.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 8, 2018 - 3:21 pm)

This is not in northern Alaska where there would be months/weeks without sunlight.

Reply Like (0)
retard (Feb 8, 2018 - 3:50 pm)

I think you are overestimating the amount of daylight you’ll have in the winter.

Reply Like (0)
williamdrayton (Feb 8, 2018 - 10:09 pm)

A "very rural county" anywhere in the continental US is not Alaska. Besides, I thought dharamsala lived in the Philly suburbs?

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 8, 2018 - 10:31 pm)

Not currently. I'm working in a small, rural, socially conservtive town.

Reply Like (0)
retard (Feb 12, 2018 - 7:40 pm)

What does being socially conservative have to do with anything?

Reply Like (0)
ugly (Feb 9, 2018 - 1:03 am)

Juneau, one of the southernmost places in AK, during Winter Solstice (12/21 12/22?) has sunrise at 8:40am and sunset at 3:45pm. I was in Anchorage/Fairbanks last month, and they had sunrise/sunset at around 10am/4pm. It was the strangest thing in the world to experience pitch darkness at 9 in the morning.

Unbelievable landscape up there though. Absolute barren and desolate spaces everywhere. Watching the sun come up in between mountain peaks where there is nothing visible but snow and trees is really something else. Almost like watching a black and white film, except you're in it.

Reply Like (0)
dharamsala (Feb 9, 2018 - 11:33 am)

That sounds incredible. Are you currently practicing law in Alaska?

Reply Like (0)
Post a message in this thread