Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

How to ask for a raise

Want more money, know they want to keep me, like it here but loser1203/19/18
Interview with other firms and get an offer. With that in ha isthisit03/19/18
My bro did this once and they made his life miserable, he di triplesix03/19/18
f-ck no once they think you're looking to leave, you're on dingbat03/19/18
This. Never ask for a raise. The company is currently paying nowhereman03/19/18
I'll have whatever you're having. "The company is current superttthero03/19/18
"The company is probably paying him what they think the lowe jeffm03/19/18
Companies rely on you taking less than you can get elsewhere superttthero03/19/18
It's this. Your worth what someone will pay. go out and ge lilgub03/19/18
Bad idea. Even if he stays on w/ his current employer and ge bucwild03/19/18
"never ask for raise"? Horrible advice. I got a raise as a blakesq03/19/18
Don't they do an annual review where you get a raise? I have fettywap03/19/18
What's the ratio between your current comp and actual billin wutwutwut03/19/18
I don't work a traditional legal job. I won't be fired on th loser1203/19/18
Non-competes don't apply to attorneys. As an attorney you sh whipster03/19/18
Two things here. 1 - depends on state. 2 - OP does not act wutwutwut03/19/18
1) get another job offer to gauge your market value but do N tcpaul03/20/18
Credited, although depending on circumstances, you CAN use i sillydood03/20/18
It’s a little bit odd because the head guy always says tha loser1203/20/18
Don't believe a word of what he says. If he wanted to make y gladigotaphdinstead03/20/18
He a good wage slave haha... Worried about being greedy?! Ne triplesix03/20/18
" I don’t need more money as a favor. I want more money, b wolfman03/20/18
I'm not trolling. It's an odd dynamic. What I mean by I don' loser1203/20/18
I'm sure you know this, but don't invest a lot of stock into 6figuremistake03/20/18
Yeah, I’m sorry that happened to you. By nature, I am not loser1203/20/18
You are contradicting yourself within the same post. Judg triplesix03/20/18
Not really. Lying about why a former employee left to an emp loser1203/20/18
If the company is somewhat dependent on me, and knows it wou loser1203/21/18
They will never double your wage. They would rather use you triplesix03/28/18
Never tell them you’re interviewing elsewhere. You’ll b dingbat03/21/18
Well, what if they won't replace me? Basically, it would cos loser1203/28/18
"Basically, to gross an extra $200k, I work about 90-100 hou jackofspeed03/28/18
Well, they found out I was interviewing and asked me how muc loser1203/28/18
You say it would cost them 200k to replace you. So ask for 1 gladigotaphdinstead03/28/18
Tbh, I have a good life insurance policy. My only concern is loser1203/28/18
They found out. Now is negotiating time. Thoughts????? loser1203/28/18
UPDATE: Supposed to name what I would sign for, for a 2 year loser1203/28/18
Unless you think they will just take what you demand as a la gladigotaphdinstead03/28/18
thx. will ask for this. loser1203/28/18
I dunno why you need me to tell you this (I'm a bearded JD p wolfman03/28/18
Yes please seek immediate medical attention if this isn't fl gladigotaphdinstead03/28/18
Job is only reg hours. I work big law hours to hit 200, but loser1203/28/18
“No insurance” Flame or idiot who won’t sign up for midlaw03/29/18
so your original situation was, the job was fine w you moonl whiteguyinchina03/28/18
No, they want me to not apply to other jobs and commit long loser1203/29/18
If op is not flame then he should immediately reconsider his goptaxlawyer03/29/18
Don't need life advice. I am a fighter. Will see what hap loser1203/29/18
Only $70k extra? You realize in most job segments thats anot goptaxlawyer03/29/18
I am currently earning approx. 120k extra b/w tutoring and w loser1203/29/18
I am currently earning approx. 120k extra b/w tutoring and w loser1203/29/18
The way to make more money is to get a better offer and take midlaw03/29/18
I don’t understand Loser12 why you don’t have a $160K jo bizzybone131303/29/18
I did. I did very well in LS. Didn't like my big law job, an loser1203/30/18
HOW much do you charge for LSAT tutoring? bizzybone131303/30/18
80-100/hour. Could prob charge double that, but can't do tha loser1203/30/18
My Powerscore LSAT instructor was a Harvard Law grad inciden bizzybone131303/30/18
Cool story bro loser1203/30/18
HOW many total hours and PT’s did you study to achieve a 1 bizzybone131303/31/18
Every PT. I tutored after I broke a 170, and eventually m loser1203/31/18
Since I only projectile vomit with no blood so far, I'm goin whipster03/30/18
Resolved. Got l/t contract and insurance. Now a good deal. loser1204/04/18
details? a guy offered me a job and said no one has contr whiteguyinchina04/04/18
130k, insurance, 3 year duration with company option to rene loser1204/05/18
Very nice. gladigotaphdinstead04/05/18
Obviously not nobody, especially in entertainment and sports gladigotaphdinstead04/05/18
Yes, grace be to God, it all worked out. loser1204/05/18
so ur new job. no contract? whiteguyinchina04/05/18

loser12 (Mar 19, 2018 - 1:27 pm)

Want more money, know they want to keep me, like it here but don't think they'll pay me market value. Any way to get close without leaving?

They found out I interviewed somewhere once because I kept my email open by accident, and gave me a decent raise 3 months ago. They said if I ever need more money, I should talk to them instead of looking to leave. It seemed disingenuous , because I don't need more money. I want to earn my market value.

Side note - coworker left for a 50% increase in salary. Management said she left because she wasn't performing.

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isthisit (Mar 19, 2018 - 1:32 pm)

Interview with other firms and get an offer. With that in hand explain to management that you want to stay but have been offered X amount and need at least Y amount to stay.

Rinse and repeat until they can you or you leave.

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triplesix (Mar 19, 2018 - 1:47 pm)

My bro did this once and they made his life miserable, he didn't last a year after a "fair" raise he negotiated and he saw people his junior get promoted ahead of him.

Risky game.

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dingbat (Mar 19, 2018 - 2:00 pm)

f-ck no
once they think you're looking to leave, you're on borrowed time. They'd rather have you leave on their schedule than your schedule.

I wouldn't even imply looking somewhere else.

The way to ask for more money is to bring in money. Nothing says value so much as billables.

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nowhereman (Mar 19, 2018 - 2:11 pm)

This. Never ask for a raise. The company is currently paying you what they think you are worth. If they think you are worth more, they will pay you more or do what they can to keep you happy.

You could position a raise on bringing in more business, but even this is a risky move.

Once you start making hay about wanting more money and more compensation, odds are management or the partners are going to see you as greedy, not a team player, uncontrollable etc. and they will look for ways to circumvent you.

If and when money becomes an issue, be prepared to walk. Actually, always be prepared to walk.

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superttthero (Mar 19, 2018 - 5:03 pm)

I'll have whatever you're having.

"The company is currently paying you what they think you are worth."

WTF?

The company is probably paying him what they think the lowest they can pay him is without him leaving.

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jeffm (Mar 19, 2018 - 5:38 pm)

"The company is probably paying him what they think the lowest they can pay him is without him leaving."

Some people equate that with market value.

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superttthero (Mar 19, 2018 - 5:46 pm)

Companies rely on you taking less than you can get elsewhere.

They are not always the same.

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lilgub (Mar 19, 2018 - 2:00 pm)

It's this. Your worth what someone will pay. go out and get it. You must be prepared to leave though.

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bucwild (Mar 19, 2018 - 2:06 pm)

Bad idea. Even if he stays on w/ his current employer and gets more $, his relationship w/ them is forever tainted. If he wants more $, OP needs to just get a better offer and walk.

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blakesq (Mar 19, 2018 - 2:35 pm)

"never ask for raise"? Horrible advice. I got a raise as an associate by giving my boss market rate info for other associates in the area. I got about an $18k/yr raise, this was back around 1999. Of course, worse case scenario is that you could get fired on the spot.

If you are bringing in money, then make sure you get paid market rate on what others who bring in similar amounts. Good luck!

I do agree that telling your boss you got an offer for more money, may make your boss think you are a short timer, and see what triplesix said above. Good luck!

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fettywap (Mar 19, 2018 - 2:39 pm)

Don't they do an annual review where you get a raise? I have an annual review every year where I am required to tell them what salary I want. Which I think is crap and may refuse if I'm still around this year.

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wutwutwut (Mar 19, 2018 - 2:46 pm)

What's the ratio between your current comp and actual billings?

Is a comparison of your ratio to what others are cut useful in explaining to your boss why you feel you're not being compensated at "standard" for similarly situated associates?

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loser12 (Mar 19, 2018 - 5:36 pm)

I don't work a traditional legal job. I won't be fired on the spot. They would need to spend at least double of what they're paying me to reimburse me, because they'd need multiple people. I can't say what I do because our business model is so "innovative and brilliant" that ya'll would steal it - I would be fired for that. In truth, I learned the business model in about a week and it's clever but not all that advanced.

For context, I started at 60 in September with another lawyer who was making 60. She left, because she was underpaid relative to the amount she was making (I think she was an idiot). Not knowing she was leaving, I asked for a raise with a 100k offer in hand and got 80k. She left, and I assumed her work. Since she's left, we've been moving more efficiently than we were before hand even though I have absorbed 3 people's workloads (another person was fired for work product issues). They keep on pushing on more work to drive in more revenue.

For a company that relies on legal knowledge, I'm a department of one and my non-compete troubles me as I was a top of the class legal student so my marketability depreciates each day. I don't want to leave, but my ability to earn 150k+ in a 9-5 hinges on eventually being paid fairly based on production. I agreed for the job at the time because it was 10% of the responsibility, and I was desperate because my big law department was gutted.

Even before that, I was getting add'l work an in house counsel would normally do and drafting most memoranda we put out because I'm the only one that can write well, and not

They do give me slack. I come in at 10 most days, because I work another 20 hours a week tutoring to bring in another 80k.

There's 0 chance I'm fired. I'm more concerned about maximizing the amount that I'm paid here.

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whipster (Mar 19, 2018 - 7:28 pm)

Non-competes don't apply to attorneys. As an attorney you should know that.

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wutwutwut (Mar 19, 2018 - 9:11 pm)

Two things here. 1 - depends on state. 2 - OP does not actually appear to be working as an attorney, so even assuming his state has the usual ethical prohibitions, "as an attorney you should know that" they may not apply to someone in a non-lawyer job.

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tcpaul (Mar 20, 2018 - 6:44 am)

1) get another job offer to gauge your market value but do NOT try to use it as leverage
2) schedule a meeting with your boss/bosses to discuss compensation
3) at meeting politely but forcefully tell them what you believe you are worth, then ask for 90% of it. Ask them to consider it. Do not make any ultimatums or hint that you might leave
4) see what they say
5) if they give you what you asked for, stay. You will not be seen as disloyal but as a valuable employee
5) if they don't give you what you ask for and the other offer pays at least 10% more, take the other job
6) be polite when turning in resignation
7) go

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sillydood (Mar 20, 2018 - 7:08 pm)

Credited, although depending on circumstances, you CAN use it as leverage. "I really want to stay here because I value this company and your mentorship, but I have to pay the bills / receive what I'm worth / advance my career /etc."

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loser12 (Mar 20, 2018 - 7:06 am)

It’s a little bit odd because the head guy always says that he can make me a millionaire, and I’m idiotic to be wasting his time over 25-30k (the bump I’d want). I think like 110-120k would be fair.

He is a multimillionaire - has properties in many cities, and is legitimately rich. However, that does not mean he’ll spread the wealth. By non-compete, I mean I can’t work in the niche area we’re in now or for a competing company meaning that I’m stuck here if I am here too long. They’d say I had a 33 percent raise 6 mo’s in, but I also took on much more responsibility than I was hired for.

I just don’t know how to ask for a raise. We have weekly discussions about personal matters - his family, my family, my dating life, etc. He’s interested in having a mentorship like role in each employee’s life - he hires very young people. However, I want more money but it’s awkward to work into conversation.

He told me in passing if I need more money, I should talk to him and he’ll help me out but to never apply to other jobs without talking to him first. I don’t need more money as a favor. I want more money, because I merit more money and it’s frustrating to be paid less than sales people who complain I get special privileges that enable me to work a second job when I am one of the main sources of business revenue, and should not have to work a second job. It’s just a little frustrating because I feel like 9-5 each day is a bit of a waste of time from an efficiency standpoint as it’s less than half my income and 70 percent of my waking hours, and I’m relying on a vague promise of being made a millionaire. At the same time, I may just be greedy.

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gladigotaphdinstead (Mar 20, 2018 - 7:52 am)

Don't believe a word of what he says. If he wanted to make you a multimillionaire he would give you afat raise. He's stringing you along. Classic sociopath boss move

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triplesix (Mar 20, 2018 - 9:33 am)

He a good wage slave haha... Worried about being greedy?! Neoliberal capitalist has done something onto the prole mind set. They are getting screwed on compensation and are worried about coming off as greedy?!

Also can't tell if trolling:

"He told me in passing if I need more money, I should talk to him and he’ll help me out but to never apply to other jobs without talking to him first."

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wolfman (Mar 20, 2018 - 10:30 am)

" I don’t need more money as a favor. I want more money, because I merit more money and it’s frustrating to be paid less than sales people who complain I get special privileges that enable me to work a second job when I am one of the main sources of business revenue, and should not have to work a second job."

Two quick points:

1) Money is money. It doesn't really matter if you are given it "as a favor" or whatever. No one in business really gives money as a favor anyway, it is almost always an exchange. Money as a favor come from family members who like/love you because you are family, and maybe really good long-term friends sometimes, that's about it.

2) You don't want to quit your second job though, do you? I thought you said you'd never quit it (teaching)? So you'll need time/flexibility to do it. Sounds like you want more money for the same hours, not more hours. That's fine, but just be honest with yourself.

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loser12 (Mar 20, 2018 - 11:08 am)

I'm not trolling. It's an odd dynamic. What I mean by I don't want more money as a favor is that if my father needs an additional $10k surgery or I want to buy a car, I don't want to say, "Hey, I need 10k. Please help." I want to have that money, because they have me filling a position that was previously allocated $165k between 3 people for $80k with requests to work nights and weekends (which I refuse).

Even to get the bump from 60k to 80k, the initial response was that there are people willing to work for free (a coworker failed the bar a few times). That response led me to start applying elsewhere, and when he found out about it, I told him that comment made it seem like this isn't a career but a place where people go when they're down and where performance isn't valued. He quickly relented, and they've been treating me very well since then with everything but comp. I do know that 2 execs started at 0, and are probably earning several hundred k but have no idea.

Again, because this work is low brow and so niche - I'm concerned about how long I should commit here if I'm not earning career level money. I know I could easily start a competing business, and execute just as well on my own and make bank, but also know that wouldn't be ethical. However, if I'm here for 5 years, and laid off/not making double what I'm making now, that would be my only option.

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6figuremistake (Mar 20, 2018 - 10:04 am)

I'm sure you know this, but don't invest a lot of stock into future promises of wealth. I was one of the first employees for a startup (or at least the US office of a startup). The owners were always promising a guaranteed buyout or IPO that would make us all rich. The company actually did grow by quite a bit and had a decent product. By the time I left, we were working with some major companies.

Nonetheless, I was underpaid and pretty skeptical about the business' longevity. When I resigned, the US CEO told me that I was leaving at the worst time. They were going to roll out stock options based upon seniority and tenure. Had things worked out (and I stayed), I could have had a nice payday. The company had been valued in billions.

Well, they never did provide the employees with stock options, and about a year after I left, the international company ran out of cash and went into bankruptcy. The US company spun off into a different company, which is plodding along but will likely never make anyone but the owners rich (though they took a bath on the lost investment from the original entity).

These startup owners are deluded (if not deceptive). If you're at a company where you enjoy the work and are compensated fairly and there happens to be the possibility of future wealth, great. Otherwise, take the cash (raise) that's presently on the table and don't gamble on shooting the moon with today's hot company.

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loser12 (Mar 20, 2018 - 11:22 am)

Yeah, I’m sorry that happened to you. By nature, I am not very trusting because I saw my parents get f’d by dishonesty to the point of almost becoming homeless. I do get the sense they’re more honest than most people, but never trust anything that’s not in writing.

One thing that irks me is our recruiter left for a similar job elsewhere that basically doubled her salary, and the main guy was pissed. He told me privately she left because she wasn’t performing, which I know was a lie because she was very excited about it.

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triplesix (Mar 20, 2018 - 11:25 am)

You are contradicting yourself within the same post.

Judging by what you said, you should get a new job and see what the market would actually pay you.

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loser12 (Mar 20, 2018 - 11:38 am)

Not really. Lying about why a former employee left to an employee they want to keep is not synonymous with lying to an employee about future compensation.

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loser12 (Mar 21, 2018 - 5:34 pm)

If the company is somewhat dependent on me, and knows it would cost $150k to replace me and all I want is $110k, would it make sense to make it known I'm interviewing?

My goal is to stay and get more money.

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triplesix (Mar 28, 2018 - 11:42 am)

They will never double your wage. They would rather use you up a bit more and throw you out for being a stupid wage slave. They will hire others and it will cost more, they don't care. This is human nature. People try to pretend like business is all about being shrewd and reasonable but when it comes to screwing wage slaves, it is about sending a message. What sort of message will they send when they double some losers salary just bc he asked?!

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dingbat (Mar 21, 2018 - 8:25 pm)

Never tell them you’re interviewing elsewhere. You’ll be marked as a flight risk
They’ll strung you along, maybe give you a bit of a raise, but fire you at their convenience (rather than see you leave at yours)

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loser12 (Mar 28, 2018 - 11:02 am)

Well, what if they won't replace me? Basically, it would cost over $200k to replace me, and get the same production. They also hinted that they want me for years with promises of quarterly bonuses such that I'll be over 200k - no contract; (no bonus yet, though they did say they'll pay for my ER visits and X-Rays when I get really sick).I know from the past they've harmed people's reputations when they've tried to leave (at least one example where someone left for more money, and it got around they were let go for poor performance).

Basically, to gross an extra $200k, I work about 90-100 hours a week, which is not so sustainable. I need the money, because of COL and I handle my parents' mortgage (they're disabled). I also did very well at a top law school, and feel I deserve certain luxuries.

I've had pneumonia for months and tend to randomly cough up blood throughout the day, because the workload is not sustainable. I am physically fit, because of sheer will but I'm talking puking during runs and weightlifting. I don't have med insurance, but from going to the doctor. I get yelled at because they often won't let me into meetings (because they have small children) so I do most stuff over the phone in my office which is quasi-quarantined. I take over the counter nose spray and cough suppressants in addition to sporadic antibiotics to appear healthy such that I can tutor and work other positions without it being known that I'm not safe to be around. I do this for dating as well, which normally results in a young woman getting very sick about a week or 2 in, but I deny I'm sick.

Main guy said he feels bad, and is working on getting me more money so I can work less, but also said I can't look for jobs without telling him so we can work it out. I have in the past suggested replacing myself with 3 out of college kids for $30k each as I transition out - maybe to a part time role while they find someone new, or possibly 2 disbarred attorneys who would be willing to work for 40/45k each (as the work doesn't require a bar license).

I'm picking up life insurance so the mortgage could be paid off if I don't make it to 50 (I'm in superficially in very good shape, non-smoker, no surgeries) so I can get a $1MM policy for like $100/month. I just have trouble breathing, because my respiratory system has been f'd up with phlegm for about 4 months.

I know I can get a raise, but how can I bring it up? I've been told if I need help to tell them, but I will never beg for money. If they catch me looking, it will breach their trust (which isn't ethically bad, but would take away my leverage). They know I've suggested working together on exit options, but they're not open to this (this was 4 months ago, when I first was diagnosed with pneumonia). I've used my sick days, because of Jewish holidays and when it wasn't practical for me to make it into work because I'd pass out behind the wheel.

All serious. If this seems like I'm complaining, I'm sorry - just frustrated and feel like garbage both physically and professionally.

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jackofspeed (Mar 28, 2018 - 12:14 pm)

"Basically, to gross an extra $200k, I work about 90-100 hours a week, which is not so sustainable. I need the money, because of COL and I handle my parents' mortgage (they're disabled). I also did very well at a top law school, and feel I deserve certain luxuries.

I've had pneumonia for months and tend to randomly cough up blood throughout the day, because the workload is not sustainable. I am physically fit, because of sheer will but I'm talking puking during runs and weightlifting. I don't have med insurance, but from going to the doctor."

If what you are saying are saying is true you need to immediately reconsider how much you are working. I assure you, your bosses appreciate your work but will drop you like a hot-potato the instant you stop producing for them, which at your current effort-level will occur (even if you're juiced up on amphetamines) in less than 6 months. You will be lucky to only suffer a physical, rather than mental breakdown.

Dial it back to 55 hours a week.

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loser12 (Mar 28, 2018 - 12:29 pm)

Well, they found out I was interviewing and asked me how much it would cost to sign a 2-year contract. I'm at 90k. 9-6, but there is pressure to work extra, which I don't do because I work 7-12, and 7 to 9 in the morning + doc review 9-11 pm on Sundays. Yes, I show up to work late. They put up with it, because of the production (i.e. I'm not an idiot) but don't like it. 55 is unrealistic but I'm looking to get to a big law workload - maybe 80 hours a week. I'd prefer the minimum as I do dream of having a family some day, and would love to have a baby but personal happiness is not a necessary condition to me as I base a lot of my happiness in being a good person and a little bit of whiskey before I go to bed.

I'm looking to not do doc review, and somewhat reduce tutoring.

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gladigotaphdinstead (Mar 28, 2018 - 1:32 pm)

You say it would cost them 200k to replace you. So ask for 150k for a 2 year contract. 90k is peanuts.

Sounds like you're also dying. You have pneumonia and cough up blood? Wtf!?

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loser12 (Mar 28, 2018 - 1:44 pm)

Tbh, I have a good life insurance policy. My only concern is being alive, and not being able to earn a good living. I think 80 hours reduces the likelihood of burnout/paralysis, which are the 2 worst options. The ability to maybe have a family on the one hand and death on the other is a risk I'm fine with. It's the status quo till paralysis, and foreclosure I'm looking to avoid. My outlook is practical in that I consider my mind and body a vehicle to prioritize my family and l/t outlook. Like someone mentioned, burnout is worse than death for my personal circumstances but I don't think it's likely because I have too much drive.

$200k may have been overly optimistic, because I don't know how much they value other things and the main guy doesn't know that I do work I'm not supposed to do because it's not in my department but I'm the only one that can write coherently.

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loser12 (Mar 28, 2018 - 2:53 pm)

They found out. Now is negotiating time. Thoughts?????

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loser12 (Mar 28, 2018 - 7:00 pm)

UPDATE: Supposed to name what I would sign for, for a 2 year contract with no opt-out, potential to void. Currently at 80k (90k was a typo). Options are 2 year contract, or train another person or multiple people to replace me while I look for another job with 4-6 months depending on both of our needs. No longer allowed to keep my job at the status quo.

What can I realistically ask for? I'd only lock myself in for 2 years for 120, but considering I started at 60 six months ago, is this realistic?

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gladigotaphdinstead (Mar 28, 2018 - 7:45 pm)

Unless you think they will just take what you demand as a last and final offer I would ask for 130 and expect them to counter with something lower (120). But I don't think it's unreasonable. Although it sounds like you should be checking yourself into a hospital rather than doing salary negotiations. These are peanuts amounts we are talking about anyways. It's sad you value your life so little.

You need to make the case that you are working extra jobs

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loser12 (Mar 28, 2018 - 7:46 pm)

thx. will ask for this.

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wolfman (Mar 28, 2018 - 7:54 pm)

I dunno why you need me to tell you this (I'm a bearded JD paralegal approaching 40 who has basically failed in becoming a physician and in life generally; my one pleasure in life is when people
ask me if I am a teacher or a doctor; I always get one or the other, mostly from poor people, for some reason), BUT: ask for 130/140 (say that's less than biglaw salary, which is 160 now, and you work biglaw hours), settle for 120 if offered, and go to the doctor. You are a young guy, so to die of pneumonia you gotta work at it, but you are getting there. What you described with being contagious to women sounds like TB, how sure are you you haven't got TB? Hell, even without TB, you may have some sort of an infiltrate in your lung loaded with pus, this is like life before Alexander Fleming and his molds... did you at least have an X-ray? Regardless, start being treated with some serious antibiotics. I understand about parental mortgage and whatnot, have nightmares on the subject myself (I make like half of what you do haha) but how do you think your parents will feel if you up and die one day?

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gladigotaphdinstead (Mar 28, 2018 - 8:04 pm)

Yes please seek immediate medical attention if this isn't flame, man.... You can literally drop dead of pneumonia. this isn't a joke

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loser12 (Mar 28, 2018 - 8:34 pm)

Job is only reg hours. I work big law hours to hit 200, but most of my income is self-driven outside of work hours. That's what's annoying. I finish the work expected in like 4 hours, but am there 8 every day with pressure to put in longer hours and it's more of a part time gig to me.

I'm on antibiotics. No insurance. Can't afford it. Parents would be sad, but they'd get over it. Financial stability is more important.

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midlaw (Mar 29, 2018 - 8:13 pm)

“No insurance”

Flame or idiot who won’t sign up for Obamacare.

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whiteguyinchina (Mar 28, 2018 - 11:29 pm)

so your original situation was, the job was fine w you moonlighting and coming in late and calling in sick all the time. and you thought your work product was more, so u tried to get an extra 20-30k. and now they told u either get the f out or make this your full time job and no side jobs.

so essentially for that extra 20-30k you have to give up free time and flexibility which was earning you more.

is that about right?

i think your boss will agree to your price, but still continue to find your replacements because you have shown to be unstable not to mention you are physically ill. so basically you have negotiated yourself into a raise like you wanted, but placed yourself in a much weaker position in the long term.

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loser12 (Mar 29, 2018 - 7:38 am)

No, they want me to not apply to other jobs and commit long term. Won’t affect hours. I am not worried about them finding a replacement at my current salary, because that’s not going to exist as they’d either need multiple people or somebody with a checkered past who is desperate. The higher we go, the more replacable I am but a contract would fix that.

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goptaxlawyer (Mar 29, 2018 - 3:07 pm)

If op is not flame then he should immediately reconsider his life style choices. The most important person in your life is you. Not your coworkers. Not your boss. And not your parents.

It is not your responsibility to take care of other peoples' financial and legal problems. Focus on yourself first. Iwould take a long - 6 week vacation minimum and see a doctor. Ironically you can qualify for health insurance by stopping work and going on Medicaid.

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loser12 (Mar 29, 2018 - 5:11 pm)

Don't need life advice.

I am a fighter. Will see what happens. Either it's a contract at a salary I proposed (I imagine they'll throw back a counteroffer) or I walk.

I don't think the 80k (1200 a week post tax) is worth a f/t commitment because with travel and overtime (nobody leaves at close time on the dot), it's more like 50 hours for under half my income so either I'd find something better or leave. As an alternative, I promised to stay on board to train a replacement.

If I got $130k, I'd only need to make $70k extra so could easily cut back my work load to 70 hours a week combined, including commuting. If I needed to train someone else for a few months and leave, I'd be making $120k working about 40 hours, and could come up with a more time efficient way to make the extra 80.

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goptaxlawyer (Mar 29, 2018 - 5:15 pm)

Only $70k extra? You realize in most job segments thats another 40 hr full time job in the usa.

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loser12 (Mar 29, 2018 - 7:00 pm)

I am currently earning approx. 120k extra b/w tutoring and weekend doc review.

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loser12 (Mar 29, 2018 - 7:00 pm)

I am currently earning approx. 120k extra b/w tutoring and weekend doc review. Plan would be to drop doc review, and be more selective about who I tutor.

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midlaw (Mar 29, 2018 - 8:11 pm)

The way to make more money is to get a better offer and take it. I’ve never asked for a raise and wouldn’t in a legal environment for all of the reasons set forth above.

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bizzybone1313 (Mar 29, 2018 - 11:34 pm)

I don’t understand Loser12 why you don’t have a $160K job in the first place since you attended a “top tier school”. What happened with OCI that you didn’t get a great job with your T-14 pedigree?

What do you tutor for...the LSAT?

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loser12 (Mar 30, 2018 - 9:04 am)

I did. I did very well in LS. Didn't like my big law job, and I went to a firm that failed to bring to business for a year and was gutted (it was on ATL). Plus, some lawyers were legit sociopaths, think throwing hard objects at you if you had a typo at 3 AM ridiculousness. There's something to be said for knowing that when you sleep from 3 AM, till 6 AM, you will get no phone calls and nobody will bother you. These are little victories that exist outside of big law (unless you work at a civilized big law firm). And yes, I have a 180 LSAT and am very, very good at teaching LSAT. Also, I am too working class and odd to fit into big law, but I am personable and fit into most environments so I don't see being fired as that bad as I'll find something else for 80k.

If this works out, I have a l/t contract for 130k, tutor 15 hours a week and hit about 200k for 60 hours a week. That's less hours than I averaged in big law for more job security, better working conditions and security.

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bizzybone1313 (Mar 30, 2018 - 9:24 am)

HOW much do you charge for LSAT tutoring?

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loser12 (Mar 30, 2018 - 9:58 am)

80-100/hour. Could prob charge double that, but can't do that till after i finish with current students.

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bizzybone1313 (Mar 30, 2018 - 4:51 pm)

My Powerscore LSAT instructor was a Harvard Law grad incidentally. She quit BigLaw, teaches the LSAT and does a few cases on the side. She hated law practice.

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loser12 (Mar 30, 2018 - 10:57 pm)

Cool story bro

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bizzybone1313 (Mar 31, 2018 - 8:16 am)

HOW many total hours and PT’s did you study to achieve a 180?

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loser12 (Mar 31, 2018 - 1:25 pm)

Every PT.

I tutored after I broke a 170, and eventually mastered the the in’s and out’s of the test and uncovered its loopholes and flaws.

It also helps to be smart. You need to start at, at least a 155 to break a 180, and nobody who starts below a 150 really gets a 170. People who start below a 145 tend to lack the ability to study - work ethic is a talent so their progress is also stunted. I advised elsewhere having 2 different kinds of law school curriculums based on LSAT score to make the profession less contingent on merit and skill, which are damaging to equality and modern notions of fairness.

Insofar as teaching, 150-155 is the soft spot for progress. Students starting here invariably crack the mid-160s if they study correctly, and have good instruction. I started passively rejecting people who start below a 150, and that’s when my yelp reputation and average student improvement both skyrocketed. It’s also when i stopped getting last minute cancelations, and could make teaching the LSAT a legitimate business.

Again, people below a 150 are fine and can make excellent lawyers once we make law school and the bar exam more accommodating nationwide, and less contingent on legal analysis. Under the current system, it’s just a waste of their time.

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whipster (Mar 30, 2018 - 11:01 am)

Since I only projectile vomit with no blood so far, I'm going for 150k and full bennies!

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loser12 (Apr 4, 2018 - 4:29 pm)

Resolved. Got l/t contract and insurance. Now a good deal.

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whiteguyinchina (Apr 4, 2018 - 10:09 pm)

details?

a guy offered me a job and said no one has contracts in US when i asked for a 2 year guarantee

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loser12 (Apr 5, 2018 - 1:37 am)

130k, insurance, 3 year duration with company option to renew at 175k in 3 yrs.

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gladigotaphdinstead (Apr 5, 2018 - 8:05 am)

Very nice.

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gladigotaphdinstead (Apr 5, 2018 - 8:06 am)

Obviously not nobody, especially in entertainment and sports, but it's rare as hell in corporate America except for high level execs

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loser12 (Apr 5, 2018 - 9:38 am)

Yes, grace be to God, it all worked out.

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whiteguyinchina (Apr 5, 2018 - 11:10 am)

so ur new job. no contract?

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