Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

I'm in a Bad Situation

296k debt, no work experience, bottom of class, poor health greenorbwizard04/10/18
How old are you? Location? Can you say where you went jackofspeed04/10/18
27-33 age range Tier 2 school in major midwest city I greenorbwizard04/10/18
You think someone would be able to identify you by knowing y trickydick04/10/18
and my school attended, yeah, I know people irl that come he greenorbwizard04/10/18
Move to New Zealand or something. It’s paradise. dwismost04/11/18
Bro... Ibr that crap and don't sweat it. Yeah it ain't pl triplesix04/10/18
Even on IBR, they will garnish my wage (assuming I found a j greenorbwizard04/10/18
They take 15 percent, not your whole paycheck. Good luck on trijocker04/10/18
Right, so say I'm making 50k, depending on the state, after greenorbwizard04/10/18
You're grossly overestimating your tax liability. They would mrtor04/10/18
I have zero work experience, none, can I get into Compliance greenorbwizard04/10/18
Isn't IBR 10% of discretionary income? I believe it's 10% of loser1204/10/18
Have you considered networking? That usually helps. trickydick04/10/18
Other people have that much debt as well, yet they don't kil trijocker04/10/18
This isn't wildly different than some of the advice given ar trollfeeder04/10/18
I've given SE Asia serious consideration, possibly teaching greenorbwizard04/10/18
Your decision to keep all your money in a safe is the critic trickydick04/10/18
The first thing you need to do is apply some introspection. wearyattorney04/10/18
Government jobs are largely out of the question, my criminal greenorbwizard04/10/18
ASSUMING YOU HAVE FED LOANS, PUT YOUR LOANS ON IBR, FIGHT WI wolfman04/10/18
So you don't think MPA is a good idea right about now? triplesix04/10/18
LOL no wolfman04/11/18
296K debt. That's pretty impressive. How'd you manage to r shuiz04/10/18
Going 5 years part-time without working. greenorbwizard04/10/18
Playing cards and teaching English in SE Asia are both compl guyingorillasuit04/10/18
OP shouldn’t play cards, go to Asia, drink or do drugs. wearyattorney04/11/18
The vast majority I know do. I'd definitely call myself mid jd4hire04/11/18
Most attorneys with 10 years exp do. Most grads dont make superttthero04/11/18
I would also be remiss if I didn't note that my wife has mor jd4hire04/11/18
GIGs said “upper middle class.” Mostly anyone that wearyattorney04/11/18
bro. you could play cards in SE asia. these are huge gamblin whiteguyinchina04/10/18
I think based on your responses, you should probably not be trollfeeder04/10/18
Do you speak an Asian language well or have a unique skill?* shuiz04/10/18
Why did you go to law school if you had multiple felonies an tcpaul04/10/18
Cool. Good luck. Many of us have been there and wish we had midlaw04/10/18
Considering your medical condition, you might be able to qua greenhorn04/11/18
I missed the information about your medical condition and cr shuiz04/11/18
Under this set of facts, it does sound like OP will need to jackofspeed04/11/18
I definitely need to reintegrate society after being done wi greenorbwizard04/11/18
Do people still praise your story as one of success? I'm sor superttthero04/11/18
OP no offense but I am having a bit of a hard time believing wolfman04/11/18
Could it be a troll? We just can't tell... triplesix04/11/18
The more the story progresses, the more I question this. mrtor04/11/18
I assure you, what i've said is all true. I went, because I greenorbwizard04/11/18
Apply for US Customs, they will take anyone as long as they walkingparadox04/11/18
Charge or conviction? (It might be a relevant distinction wearyattorney04/11/18
Charge. greenorbwizard04/11/18
Good question. I'm sure a conviction is out. I believe if walkingparadox04/12/18
Ditto on the US Customs/Border patrol, and local PD. If you whipster04/11/18
US Customs has ports on the northern border. If OP wants to walkingparadox04/12/18

greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 2:42 pm)

296k debt, no work experience, bottom of class, poor health insurance, I intend to pay none of my debt off, it's their problem now, electing to live off the grid completely, storing all my money in a safe, playing cards to support myself, not paying taxes, buying everything in cash, putting all my assets in someone else's name.


Not sure why I've decided to post this now, I guess I'm looking for choice words of advice, /killself is warranted, and I've though about it, but I might ride this out until the wheels fall off completely, which may be sooner than later.

Reply Like (0)
jackofspeed (Apr 10, 2018 - 2:50 pm)

How old are you?

Location?

Can you say where you went to law school?

Have you passed the bar?

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 3:23 pm)

27-33 age range

Tier 2 school in major midwest city

I can't say anymore without outing myself

Have not passed the bar.

Reply Like (0)
trickydick (Apr 10, 2018 - 5:53 pm)

You think someone would be able to identify you by knowing your age and the city in which you live?

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 9:18 pm)

and my school attended, yeah, I know people irl that come here, and have told them I visit here.

Reply Like (0)
dwismost (Apr 11, 2018 - 4:19 pm)

Move to New Zealand or something. It’s paradise.

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (Apr 10, 2018 - 2:48 pm)

Bro... Ibr that crap and don't sweat it.

Yeah it ain't pleasant but life goes on. Surely not worth ruining your life over it. They can't get get blood from a stone.

Just don't be an idiot who won't file his paper work on time. That's just stupid

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 3:30 pm)

Even on IBR, they will garnish my wage (assuming I found a job), add in state and federal income taxes on top of that, what's the best case scenario of actual take-home? I've thought about this a lot, I would only have to make 20-25k per year in cards off the grid to equal a 50k salary (50k being a ridiculously optimistic job outcome) I'll file the paperwork, but not paying a dime.

Reply Like (0)
trijocker (Apr 10, 2018 - 3:36 pm)

They take 15 percent, not your whole paycheck.
Good luck on the card playing career if you can make it.


"Federal law allows creditors who own student loans guaranteed by the federal government to garnish up to 15% of your disposable income. Disposable income is your after-tax or “take-home” pay after federal and state taxes are withheld."

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 3:53 pm)

Right, so say I'm making 50k, depending on the state, after state and federal income tax, that comes out to around 40% of that 50k going to the government, which is 20k, leaving me 30k, 15% of 30k is 4500, so that's 25.5k per year to cover rent, car, probably insurance, groceries, in a high COL area, while still being 296k in the hole, and this is the most optimal outcome, the reality, is there is no 50k job, there is nothing.

If I'm missing something from this equation, tell me.

Reply Like (0)
mrtor (Apr 10, 2018 - 4:16 pm)

You're grossly overestimating your tax liability. They wouldn't take 40%. After basic Turbo Tax deductions, I believe I was down around 15% making a lot more than $50k.

Trying to make ends meet playing cards is a waste of time. Get it together.

Put your loans on IBR, auto-deduct the payments, and stop checking the balance. It will be taken care of. As long as you make your payments, it probably won't even have a significant impact on your credit. Next, get yourself a damn job. The longer you sit, the harder you're making it on yourself. You dodged a bullet by avoiding the practice of law. I was in and got out. Apply for quasi-legal jobs. Compliance, risk management, contracts management/administration, HR, etc. Spin your experience as relevant and proclaim your passion for that field. Don't wing it -- research how to approach jobs you are overqualified for. There are resources out there.

If you cut the woe-is-me BS, you can get your life back on track. There are many people in this world in far worse situations. Buckle down, work hard, and you'll have a good life ahead of you.

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 9:31 pm)

I have zero work experience, none, can I get into Compliance without any experience? I've been looking into this, everything mentioned requires experience, I haven't even worked a cashier's job, nothing, which is my fault, I could make up work experience and list someone I know as a reference, research the position online, definitely not impossible, however...........

There are other considerations in my situation outside the scope of this forum that I didn't mention, it's not simply a matter of getting myself together, I managed to develop a condition in law school that makes it nearly impossible to walk or do day-to-day activities, i've been to several doctors that can't determine what the pathology is, if it was a matter of touching up my resume and focusing on getting my foot in the door, regardlesss of the debt-load, I wouldn't be here.

Reply Like (0)
loser12 (Apr 10, 2018 - 4:09 pm)

Isn't IBR 10% of discretionary income? I believe it's 10% of your pretax income over $18,000. You could maybe drive a cab for a local company while you look. That's all cash. You should be able to pull in a grand a week if you work long hours.

Reply Like (0)
trickydick (Apr 10, 2018 - 2:53 pm)

Have you considered networking? That usually helps.

Reply Like (0)
trijocker (Apr 10, 2018 - 2:59 pm)

Other people have that much debt as well, yet they don't kill themselves
Find something you can do with your life, but yes you are probably going to live on all cash.
Did you try 1BR or deferment first?

Reply Like (0)
trollfeeder (Apr 10, 2018 - 3:06 pm)

This isn't wildly different than some of the advice given around here, just throw in a suggestion of living in SE Asia.

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 3:33 pm)

I've given SE Asia serious consideration, possibly teaching English, not sure what else I could do there.

Reply Like (0)
trickydick (Apr 10, 2018 - 5:54 pm)

Your decision to keep all your money in a safe is the critical factor. No one will be able to get it there.

Reply Like (0)
wearyattorney (Apr 10, 2018 - 4:05 pm)

The first thing you need to do is apply some introspection. Why are you in this situation? Why did you go to law school, etc.?

Once you arrive at that answer, it will help you with your future decisions.

I think what you did is follow social convention or you thought you would rebel against the system and beat the odds, I could be wrong of course. Whatever it is, when you find that same thinking popping up again, get rid of it.

I don’t know if PSLF is still around, but with that debt load, you need to seriously consider it. If it is still around, get any government job you can get to get the loans forgiven. Ideally, try and become a cop or a teacher in a big city or wealthy county; if that isn’t possible, again, assuming PSLF is still around, get any government job you can.

Your idea on playing cards is not correct, unless you are super good at it and can make millions off it.

The system is predatory and it beat you once, don’t let it beat you a second time. Going off the grid is just going to exacerbate the problem.

If you want to take a giant risk and gamble, get this debt off your back using PSLF and then try opening some kind of busienss when it’s retired.

Do not go back to school unless it’s medical school (with the idea that you will go to an undeserved area and get loans forgiven) or its for a degree that getting a government job is contingent on.

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 9:08 pm)

Government jobs are largely out of the question, my criminal record is lengthy, and includes felony charges, I forgot to mention that key detail, I can get it expunged, but still doubt I'd pass any serious background check.

Reply Like (0)
wolfman (Apr 10, 2018 - 5:21 pm)

ASSUMING YOU HAVE FED LOANS, PUT YOUR LOANS ON IBR, FIGHT WITH LOAN SERVICER IF NECESSARY, DO NOT DEFAULT.

No one should default on federal loans, that is what IBR is for. I defaulted, but I had no choice: I had private loans, 100% ineligible for IBR and/or PLSF and ran out of forebearences and deferrrals; my life blows and I will likely never be admitted and may never get a security clearance (and defaulting on private loans>>>>>>>>> defaulting on federal loans).

But I had no choice. You do. Put your federal loans on IBR. That's not "repaying" them - witha high balance and low income you will likely never repay more than a fraction. Don't worry about the tax bomb either. They will garnish your wages IF you default, NOT if you go on IBR.

Oh, and not to restate the obvious, but if you are nearly 300K in debt for a non-top-law-degree (or any law degree, actually, or anything other than an MD), you made some BAD decisions. Try to change your decision-making process. Do not do the same thing and expect different results.

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (Apr 10, 2018 - 5:45 pm)

So you don't think MPA is a good idea right about now?

Reply Like (0)
wolfman (Apr 11, 2018 - 10:20 am)

LOL no

Reply Like (0)
shuiz (Apr 10, 2018 - 6:46 pm)

296K debt. That's pretty impressive. How'd you manage to rack up that score?

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 10, 2018 - 9:15 pm)

Going 5 years part-time without working.

Reply Like (0)
guyingorillasuit (Apr 10, 2018 - 7:28 pm)

Playing cards and teaching English in SE Asia are both complete dead-ends. You can do better. I think the mistake you are making is not taking a more long-term view of things. If you pass the bar and become an attorney, you are likely to make an upper-middle class living in the future. Among attorneys I know who are 10 years out, at least 90% are making an upper-middle-class living. Don't judge an entire life's work by your first year salary.

If you teach English in SE Asia for 5 years, you are worse off than when you started. If you practice law for 5 years, even in a crappy place, you have a profession that will clothe you and feed you.

Be very careful with drugs and alcohol. If you are overdoing it now, get help before things really get desperate.

Reply Like (0)
wearyattorney (Apr 11, 2018 - 2:12 am)

OP shouldn’t play cards, go to Asia, drink or do drugs.

The rest of your post is a lie or an aberration. Most attorneys do not make an upper middle class living, whether ten years out or otherwise.

Reply Like (0)
jd4hire (Apr 11, 2018 - 8:51 am)

The vast majority I know do. I'd definitely call myself middle class (without specification as to lower middle, middle middle, or upper middle). MY household income is 175k, we "own" a home, have retirement accounts, take vacations, and even buy groceries at whole foods from time to time.

Reply Like (0)
superttthero (Apr 11, 2018 - 8:56 am)

Most attorneys with 10 years exp do.

Most grads dont make it that far as attorneys.

Reply Like (0)
jd4hire (Apr 11, 2018 - 10:31 am)

I would also be remiss if I didn't note that my wife has more debt than OP. We're on the PSLF plan fo life (or at least the next 8.5 years).

Not sure I'd agree with the idea that "most grads dont make it that far as attorneys," but I digress. Certainly a fair amount don't make it that far, but don't think its "most." I graduated from a fourth tier feces-laden crap hole and still think most of us are living a middle-class life (with ridiculous amounts of debt for which we are waiting for an unexpected inheritance from that wealthy uncle we never knew about or forgiveness).

Reply Like (0)
wearyattorney (Apr 11, 2018 - 2:23 pm)

GIGs said “upper middle class.”

Mostly anyone that survives ten years in any skill based field will make a middle class living.

No one goes to law school to have a middle class living after ten years in school and ten years of experience in a stressful field.

If you want that, become a teacher in any blue state.

Reply Like (0)
whiteguyinchina (Apr 10, 2018 - 8:54 pm)

bro. you could play cards in SE asia. these are huge gambling cultures
you could be like van damme in kickboxer, only in cards. i am serious. except the van damme part.

Reply Like (0)
trollfeeder (Apr 10, 2018 - 9:10 pm)

I think based on your responses, you should probably not be a tax preparer.

Reply Like (0)
shuiz (Apr 10, 2018 - 9:29 pm)

Do you speak an Asian language well or have a unique skill?* If not, you’re unlikely earn much more than survival level wages teaching English.

* A J.D. is not a unique skill.

Reply Like (0)
tcpaul (Apr 10, 2018 - 10:26 pm)

Why did you go to law school if you had multiple felonies and no chance of passing the bar?

BTW, your life ain't that bad. I'd reach through the internet and slap you, saying "Snap out of it," if I could. Pull your sh!÷ together.

Reply Like (0)
midlaw (Apr 10, 2018 - 11:19 pm)

Cool. Good luck. Many of us have been there and wish we had gone that route.

Reply Like (0)
greenhorn (Apr 11, 2018 - 1:10 am)

Considering your medical condition, you might be able to qualify for Social Security Disability. Then you can discharge your loans in bankruptcy. Collect SSDI and play cards for cash on the side. Sounds like not a bad life.

Reply Like (0)
shuiz (Apr 11, 2018 - 3:14 am)

I missed the information about your medical condition and criminal record.

If you can’t walk easily, I think English teaching in Asia would be difficult.

I’m almost certain your criminal record (if discovered) would also disqualify you.

Reply Like (0)
jackofspeed (Apr 11, 2018 - 8:11 am)

Under this set of facts, it does sound like OP will need to pursue a nonstandard solution.

If you were in Philadelphia, I would direct you to organizations that help released felons reintegrate into society.

You're most likely going to need to start out in a make-work gig for a non-profit to demonstrate you can work.

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 11, 2018 - 8:25 am)

I definitely need to reintegrate society after being done with law school, that's for sure.

Reply Like (0)
superttthero (Apr 11, 2018 - 10:31 am)

Do people still praise your story as one of success? I'm sorry to hear all this OP. I agree, IBR it and find something, hopefully plsf eligible.

What gripes me about your story is probably how everyone cheered you on while the few telling you the truth were labeled haters, jealous, downers.

Reply Like (0)
wolfman (Apr 11, 2018 - 10:34 am)

OP no offense but I am having a bit of a hard time believing that all of this is true:

1) you have a lengthy criminal record that includes felonies

2) despite that, you went to law school, for five years part-time, but without working at all, racking up nearly 300K in loans

3) you developed a condition while in law school that makes it pretty much impossible for you to walk or to be outside, yet doctors can't find out what's wrong.

If any or all of this is true... wow just wow... you have my sympathies. My advice to get on IBR ASAP is still valid though - it is valid for EVERYONE - if you have 0 income you'll have 0 payments, and will be in good standing and on your way to 25-year discharge.

Also, you must have been completely out of your mind to go to LS with that record. Why did you do that? And why did you take 5 years? And how criminal is your law school for letting you in and allowing you to stay? No, seriously, I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but what was your thinking for the past 5 years?

IF the above is true, I'm not sure what else to tell you. If you can't walk, Social Security Disability seems like something you should be applying for sooner rather than later though. I dunno how your JD will affect it. What about government (state or federal) paralegal jobs, have you thought of that? Or try to pass the bar and apply for law clerk jobs, once again in government or the courts?

What are the chances your affliction is psychosomatic or related to substance use? A lawyer friend supposedly killed himself with pills due to an intractable pain disorder that doctors could not identify... but I am convinced he was depressed to begin with because of personal/career setbacks, God rest his soul... I hope you are not taking opiates. If you are, there are ways to stop.

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (Apr 11, 2018 - 10:36 am)

Could it be a troll? We just can't tell...

Reply Like (0)
mrtor (Apr 11, 2018 - 10:43 am)

The more the story progresses, the more I question this.

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 11, 2018 - 12:28 pm)

I assure you, what i've said is all true. I went, because I disclosed every last detail to the schools I applied to, character and fitness is the least of my worries at this moment, but yeah don't worry, nothing you've said could further dampen my situation, I appreciate the response, and deserve ridicule. I honestly wasn't thinking, I should have stopped after the first year, by that time, I was already mentally gone, I went through a breakup with my s/o of 7 years during the first year as well, so my judgment overall was extremely clouded to say the least, and of course, my family told me to keep going, even electing to pay for my rent and food, despite my insistence I should probably quit, again not blaming anyone, it is indeed my fault. I can explain the 5 year period no better than extreme psychosis, one that likely needed immediate medical attention, that I never received, that's the only way I can put it.

I've looked into SSD, luckily there's some paper trail, as I've seen a few doctors (no help), but that's a notoriously tough cookie to crack, and the JD will not play into my favor at all, if i had to guess.

There is a chance my affliction is psychosomatic, a very good chance, I am on opiates as we speak, but my condition occurred long before my use, it's the only way to deal with the physical pain, it took years for me to reach the point where I elected to turn to drug use, as it currently stands, it's my only form of relief, no matter how temporary it may be.

I understand my story seems unbelievable, trust me, I wish this were just a flame post, I'm not sure whether I want God to have mercy on my soul, or for there to be no God, so I can die and forget this ever happened.

Reply Like (0)
walkingparadox (Apr 11, 2018 - 11:11 am)

Apply for US Customs, they will take anyone as long as they don't have a domestic violence charge.

Reply Like (0)
wearyattorney (Apr 11, 2018 - 1:16 pm)

Charge or conviction?

(It might be a relevant distinction based on where this seems to be headed).

Reply Like (0)
greenorbwizard (Apr 11, 2018 - 10:37 pm)

Charge.

Reply Like (0)
walkingparadox (Apr 12, 2018 - 12:47 pm)

Good question. I'm sure a conviction is out. I believe if charged with you have to give an explanation and they look into it. I will see if I can dig that up.

Reply Like (0)
whipster (Apr 11, 2018 - 7:13 pm)

Ditto on the US Customs/Border patrol, and local PD. If you can breathe, you have a job. Can you drive a truck? Huge money in W TX or NM, some work in CO WY also... if you have a pulse and a CDL.

If you live or can move near any of the hot Oil/Gas areas noted above, you can do landman work with a JD and no bar. That's close to 6 figures real quick. Hell half the JD's I meet in the oilfield have been disbarred already. I am like a golden angel that still has my license.

The bullet point to take away from this presentation is:

THERE IS WORK OUT THERE QUIT WHINING!

Reply Like (0)
walkingparadox (Apr 12, 2018 - 12:48 pm)

US Customs has ports on the northern border. If OP wants to live in the middle of nowhere he can, and be paid.

Reply Like (0)
Post a message in this thread