Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Schools with most unemployed grads (does anybody have full list)

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/05/the -law-schools-with-the-mos jdcumlaude05/02/18
I don't have access to the site, but the list is pretty easy 6figuremistake05/02/18
Please do not play the law schools' game by looking at how m legalace05/02/18
Eh. I was just reproducing the list based upon the article i 6figuremistake05/02/18
Yeah I think the real criteria for fully employed is now som onehell05/02/18
Some of my friends from school who went solo are making the fettywap05/02/18
It can, but usually it only works out if you have some exper onehell05/02/18
So 13% or over and you’re presumptively terrible. The jorgedeclaro05/02/18
Yeah. No way is 8% accurate for my law school. fettywap05/02/18
How do they define "unemployed" ? patenttrollnj05/02/18
It's based upon the "unemployed-seeking" category. Essential 6figuremistake05/03/18
I’m not surprised. Most law students today are just libera flyer1405/03/18
Wisconsin is way too low bigsal05/03/18
jdcumlaude (May 2, 2018 - 11:03 am)

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/05/the-law-schools-with-the-most-unemployed-graduates-2017/


Does anybody have full list?

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6figuremistake (May 2, 2018 - 12:32 pm)

I don't have access to the site, but the list is pretty easy to recreate from the ABA's employment data

http://abarequireddisclosures.org/EmploymentOutcomes.aspx

SchoolName Unemployment %
INTER AMERICAN UNIVERSITY OF PUERTO RICO 35%
UNIVERSITY OF LA VERNE 34%
THOMAS JEFFERSON SCHOOL OF LAW 29%
PONTIFICAL CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF P.R. 27%
FLORIDA COASTAL SCHOOL OF LAW 25%
ELON UNIVERSITY 23%
WHITTIER LAW SCHOOL 23%
VALPARAISO UNIVERSITY 22%
SAN FRANCISCO, UNIVERSITY OF 22%
DEPAUL UNIVERSITY 19%
SOUTH TEXAS COLLEGE OF LAW HOUSTON 17%
WESTERN MICHIGAN UNIVERSITY 17%
GOLDEN GATE UNIVERSITY 17%
MISSISSIPPI COLLEGE 17%
CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY 17%
MCGEORGE SCHOOL OF LAW 17%
SAN DIEGO, UNIVERSITY OF 17%
SOUTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY-CARBONDALE 16%
CHARLESTON SCHOOL OF LAW 16%
SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY 16%
CLEVELAND STATE UNIVERSITY 16%
FLORIDA A&M UNIVERSITY 16%
CINCINNATI, UNIVERSITY OF 16%
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 15%
ARIZONA SUMMIT LAW SCHOOL 15%
NOVA SOUTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY 15%
ST. THOMAS UNIVERSITY (FLORIDA) 15%
ATLANTA'S JOHN MARSHALL LAW SHOOL 15%
NORTH CAROLINA CENTRAL UNIVERSITY 14%
ROGER WILLIAMS UNIVERSITY 14%
VERMONT LAW SCHOOL 14%
NEW ENGLAND LAW | BOSTON 14%
BARRY UNIVERSITY 14%
ST. MARY'S UNIVERSITY 13%
PUERTO RICO, UNIVERSITY OF 13%
WILLAMETTE UNIVERSITY 13%
MERCER UNIVERSITY 13%
MISSISSIPPI, UNIVERSITY OF 13%
DAYTON, UNIVERSITY OF 13%
SOUTHWESTERN LAW SCHOOL 12%
CALIFORNIA WESTERN SCHOOL OF LAW 12%
CALIFORNIA-HASTINGS, UNIVERSITY OF 12%
MAINE, UNIVERSITY OF 12%
TEXAS A&M UNIVERSITY 12%
APPALACHIAN SCHOOL OF LAW 12%
CREIGHTON UNIVERSITY 12%
AMERICAN UNIVERSITY 12%
LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY-LOS ANGELES 11%
AVE MARIA SCHOOL OF LAW 11%
CAPITAL UNIVERSITY 11%
WASHINGTON AND LEE UNIVERSITY 11%
JOHN MARSHALL LAW SCHOOL 11%
SEATTLE UNIVERSITY 11%
LEWIS AND CLARK COLLEGE 10%
LOYOLA UNIVERSITY-CHICAGO 10%
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY 10%
VILLANOVA UNIVERSITY 10%
ALBANY LAW SCHOOL OF UNION UNIVERSITY 10%
WIDENER-COMMONWEALTH 10%
HOWARD UNIVERSITY 10%
NORTHERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY 10%
WAYNE STATE UNIVERSITY 10%
WASHINGTON, UNIVERSITY OF 10%
WESTERN STATE COLLEGE OF LAW 10%
CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK 10%
QUINNIPIAC UNIVERSITY 10%
CHICAGO-KENT COLLEGE OF LAW-IIT 9%
CARDOZO SCHOOL OF LAW 9%
MEMPHIS, UNIVERSITY OF 9%
INDIANA UNIVERSITY - BLOOMINGTON 9%
SANTA CLARA UNIVERSITY 9%
PENNSYLVANIA STATE - PENN STATE LAW 9%
NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL 9%
INDIANA UNIVERSITY - INDIANAPOLIS 9%
PITTSBURGH, UNIVERSITY OF 9%
TEXAS SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY 9%
NORTHERN ILLINOIS UNIVERSITY 9%
MARYLAND, UNIVERSITY OF 8%
GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY 8%
CONCORDIA LAW SCHOOL 8%
BOSTON UNIVERSITY 8%
PENNSYLVANIA STATE - DICKINSON LAW 8%
TEXAS TECH UNIVERSITY 8%
SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY 8%
ST. JOHN'S UNIVERSITY 8%
WESTERN NEW ENGLAND UNIVERSITY 8%
SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY 8%
CAMPBELL UNIVERSITY 8%
FAULKNER UNIVERSITY 8%
NORTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY 8%
OKLAHOMA CITY UNIVERSITY 8%
BALTIMORE, UNIVERSITY OF 8%
NEW MEXICO, UNIVERSITY OF 8%
ARKANSAS, LITTLE ROCK, UNIVERSITY OF 8%
GONZAGA UNIVERSITY 7%
LOYOLA UNIVERSITY-NEW ORLEANS 7%
ST. THOMAS, UNIVERSITY OF (MINNESOTA) 7%
WIDENER UNIVERSITY-DELAWARE 7%
CALIFORNIA-IRVINE, UNIVERSITY OF 7%
NORTH CAROLINA, UNIVERSITY OF 7%
PEPPERDINE UNIVERSITY 7%
BROOKLYN LAW SCHOOL 7%
HOUSTON, UNIVERSITY OF 7%
TEMPLE UNIVERSITY 7%
FORDHAM UNIVERSITY 7%
HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY 7%
WILLIAM AND MARY LAW SCHOOL 7%
BOSTON COLLEGE 7%
RICHMOND, UNIVERSITY OF 7%
TOURO COLLEGE 7%
CASE WESTERN RESERVE UNIVERSITY 7%
SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY 6%
ILLINOIS, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
DRAKE UNIVERSITY 6%
CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY OF AMERICA 6%
MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY 6%
WASHBURN UNIVERSITY 6%
UNIVERSITY OF MASSACHUSETTS DARTMOUTH 6%
TEXAS AT AUSTIN, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
UNT DALLAS COLLEGE OF LAW 6%
SOUTH DAKOTA, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
DETROIT MERCY, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
COLORADO, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO-SUNY 6%
MISSOURI, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
PACE UNIVERSITY 6%
AKRON, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
SAMFORD UNIVERSITY 6%
NEBRASKA, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
OREGON, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
EMORY UNIVERSITY 6%
DREXEL UNIVERSITY 6%
MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY 6%
ARIZONA STATE UNIVERSITY 6%
DUQUESNE UNIVERSITY 6%
FLORIDA, UNIVERSITY OF 6%
LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY 5%
NOTRE DAME, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
RUTGERS UNIVERSITY 5%
TOLEDO, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
IDAHO, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY 5%
FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY 5%
TULANE UNIVERSITY 5%
BELMONT UNIVERSITY 5%
REGENT UNIVERSITY 5%
WISCONSIN, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
MIAMI, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
NEW HAMPSHIRE UNIVERSITY OF 5%
SOUTH CAROLINA, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
DENVER, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
ARIZONA, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
NORTH DAKOTA, UNIVERSITY OF 5%
BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIVERSITY 5%
OKLAHOMA, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
MISSOURI-KANSAS CITY, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY 4%
ARKANSAS, FAYETTEVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
WYOMING, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
KANSAS, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
TENNESSEE, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
CONNECTICUT, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
CALIFORNIA-LOS ANGELES, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
SAINT LOUIS UNIVERSITY 4%
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
HAWAII, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
MONTANA, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
CALIFORNIA-DAVIS, UNIVERSITY OF 4%
UTAH, UNIVERSITY OF 3%
GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY 3%
MITCHELL|HAMLINE 3%
WEST VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY 3%
GEORGIA, UNIVERSITY OF 3%
LOUISVILLE, UNIVERSITY OF 3%
VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY 3%
KENTUCKY, UNIVERSITY OF 3%
MINNESOTA, UNIVERSITY OF 2%
TULSA, UNIVERSITY OF 2%
UNIVERSITY OF NEVADA - LAS VEGAS 2%
BAYLOR UNIVERSITY 2%
NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY 2%
GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY 2%
OHIO NORTHERN UNIVERSITY 2%
STETSON UNIVERSITY 2%
SETON HALL UNIVERSITY 2%
WAKE FOREST UNIVERSITY 2%
ALABAMA, UNIVERSITY OF 2%
STANFORD UNIVERSITY 2%
IOWA, UNIVERSITY OF 1%
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY 1%
VIRGINIA, UNIVERSITY OF 1%
OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY 1%
NEW YORK UNIVERSITY 1%
CORNELL UNIVERSITY 1%
CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY, UNIVERSITY OF 1%
HARVARD UNIVERSITY 1%
CHICAGO, UNIVERSITY OF 1%
YALE UNIVERSITY 1%
MICHIGAN, UNIVERSITY OF 1%
DUKE UNIVERSITY 0%
PENNSYLVANIA, UNIVERSITY OF 0%
LINCOLN MEMORIAL 0%
WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY 0%

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legalace (May 2, 2018 - 12:45 pm)

Please do not play the law schools' game by looking at how many are "Employed." Look instead at how many are "Employed - Bar Passage Required."

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6figuremistake (May 2, 2018 - 12:54 pm)

Eh. I was just reproducing the list based upon the article in question. Agreed that anything besides landing a FT, bar passage required job out of LS is a failure - and plenty of the attorney jobs offer terrible pay and working conditions, too.

Nevertheless, these unemployment numbers ARE terrible just by themselves. Only a handful of schools have unemployment rates below or equal to the national unemployment rate after NINE MONTHS. Pretty lousy ROI on your $200k investment.

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onehell (May 2, 2018 - 2:46 pm)

Yeah I think the real criteria for fully employed is now something like:

1. Full-time
2. Bar-passage required
3. Not school funded
4. Not temporary
5. Not solo

I think there should be a sixth criteria, which should be that your salary is no less than one-half of the school's median student loan indebtedness at graduation (finaid.org says your debt is ideally 1x salary, but you can swing up to 2x without necessarily having to resort to IBR). So if someone borrowed 100k for school they should make at least 50k at graduation or else they are severely under-employed. If they borrowed 200k, they need to start at least at 100 to remotely justify this investment.

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fettywap (May 2, 2018 - 2:58 pm)

Some of my friends from school who went solo are making the big bucks though. Solo works well for a lot of attorneys.

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onehell (May 2, 2018 - 5:13 pm)

It can, but usually it only works out if you have some experience under your belt first, plus a good amount of startup capital to keep the lights on until you have a good volume of work (I think Foonberg recommends at least a year's worth of living expenses saved up on top of the costs to run your office).

But these employment scores are calculated at graduation and 9 months thereafter. Someone who went solo that early might eventually be successful, sure, but odds are that they aren't solo by choice.

These surveys are designed for prospective future students to evaluate their chances, and very few people go to law school wanting to hang a shingle right after graduation and there are serious malpractice risks associated with doing so. So they should not count someone who went directly from graduation to shingle-hanging as fully employed. Regardless of whether some may succeed in making a go of it, solo would not be seen as a good outcome for most people who would read such a survey.

Indeed, many supposed solos that fresh out may have few or no clients. Sometimes self-employed is just code for unemployed and they just make a shell of a law firm just so they won't have a blank space on their resume. You can't individually evaluate every solo's success or lack thereof, so I think going solo RIGHT after graduation is a pretty good indicator of failure. Not true in all cases, but statistics by their very nature have to draw some generalizations.

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jorgedeclaro (May 2, 2018 - 8:33 pm)

So 13% or over and you’re presumptively terrible.

The first one to stick out to me on this metric was University of Washington. At 10% they are surrounded by poop schools despite being a consistent T20 contender.

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fettywap (May 2, 2018 - 1:29 pm)

Yeah. No way is 8% accurate for my law school.

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patenttrollnj (May 2, 2018 - 9:37 pm)

How do they define "unemployed" ?

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6figuremistake (May 3, 2018 - 8:41 am)

It's based upon the "unemployed-seeking" category. Essentially, anyone who wants a job but can't find one - nine months after graduating. I'm actually surprised the numbers are so high because technically a guy flipping Whoppers has at least a "part-time employed in a non-professional capacity" role- if not a JD preferred job.

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flyer14 (May 3, 2018 - 9:04 am)

I’m not surprised. Most law students today are just liberal artists who suck at manual labor jobs because they’ve been mentally conditioned by their boomer parents to fear hard work. They went to college specifically because they didn’t want to flip burgers, and now they’re a college grad, there’s no way in hell they’d go flip burgers. They’d rather remain unemployed and complain about their lot in life from the bedroom they lived in as a teenager.

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bigsal (May 3, 2018 - 2:09 pm)

Wisconsin is way too low

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