Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Elie is the highlight of Above the Law

Keeps it real without a record deal by showcasing how white esquirewalletsmatter07/05/18
I saw him as nothing but a cheat and a thief, making up stup karma07/07/18
All part of the scam, right? Way I see it is if you forgave esquirewalletsmatter07/07/18
Please. I ask to borrow your mower and tell you I'll give it karma07/10/18
I respectfully disagree. Elie Mystal is a liberal version o youngbuck07/06/18
FWIW, no one "wins hearts and minds" because hearts and mind onehell07/09/18
Elie is a bigger racist than the Klan. I stopped reading isthisit07/06/18
You can’t be serious. pherc07/06/18
I am. isthisit07/06/18
You do realize the KKK has literally murdered and terrorized pherc07/06/18
I do. Elie is a racist who writes inflammatory articles. He' isthisit07/06/18
You’re an idiot. pherc07/06/18
You sound like an ATL editor. isthisit07/06/18
He is a racist. He blames another race for his problems. orgdonor07/07/18
Same here. The comments were hilarious. The articles themsel brokelawyer07/06/18
Would be great if Partner Emeritus were to resurface somewhe inindiana07/06/18
Someone had a weblog page up of a lot or even most of his co wutwutwut07/07/18
Next time he's at a Federalist Society meeting hopefully a m jackofspeed07/06/18
He’s a clown massivemissive07/06/18
Elie now is a walrus-level creature that pretends to be a jo wolfman07/07/18
At the same time, you would love to work for the Confederate esquirewalletsmatter07/07/18
What a bunch of bs massivemissive07/08/18
Supporter of corporate welfare, I see. It’s okay to prop u esquirewalletsmatter07/08/18
Youngbuck, I think you should consider reading someone like nycatt07/07/18
✅ Credited esquirewalletsmatter07/07/18
What do you mean "representative of a group that you probabn orgdonor07/08/18
Racism abounds. Walk around every day with a Jamaican wife a esquirewalletsmatter07/08/18
ESW: thanks for proving my point. You just called me a racis orgdonor07/08/18
No I said ur perception of being racist. I don’t know if y esquirewalletsmatter07/08/18
The "cause" of a better existence for black peoples is hinde orgdonor07/08/18
This is the statement that I think a lot of the disagreement nycatt07/08/18
Is it possible that the daily discussions of race ("the firs orgdonor07/08/18
Orgdonor, Guys like Elie are just giving their honest opi nycatt07/08/18
I agree that Elie is honest and passionate. He's also mostly junkwired07/08/18
I was going to respectfully disagree with you but went to th nycatt07/08/18
By the time I saw this, orgdonor already responded with ever youngbuck07/09/18
lol troybrown51107/09/18
https://abovethelaw.com/2018/07/i-d ont-care-who-the-next-sup jackofspeed07/09/18

esquirewalletsmatter (Jul 5, 2018 - 7:52 am)

Keeps it real without a record deal by showcasing how white supremacy has gutted the law. Or in the alternative, how the law has always benefitted white supremacy. As a proud EyeTalian-Irish with a black wife, all I gots to say is preach, brotha, preach.

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karma (Jul 7, 2018 - 6:04 pm)

I saw him as nothing but a cheat and a thief, making up stupid excuses not to pay on his loans he could afford to pay off. I suppose he had some asinine argument that it was Racist that he was expected to pay back money he borrowed for law school, loans that he certainly contractually agreed to pay off, but I didn't bother reading it.

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esquirewalletsmatter (Jul 7, 2018 - 7:07 pm)

All part of the scam, right? Way I see it is if you forgave those loans, imagine how much it will stimulate the economy if we, the damned generation, put our thousand dollar plus loan payments towards consumer spending or investments instead. Just makes too much sense. And quite frankly, our esteemed el presidente and or his alter ego corps went bankrupt so many times it makes the moral argument moot. Pres can do it why can’t the commoner? If the Boomer that misspent during the bubbles and wrecked the economy can do it, why not the desperate prole graduating into a near depression? Not to mention the bailouts to all the corps and banks under W and Obama. Where’s the bailout for the lost generation of the new millennium? Would just make too much sense. Elie can do what he pleases as he is free to do such. And his arguments happen to be on point as he rails against the man and rages against the machine.

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karma (Jul 10, 2018 - 12:16 am)

Please. I ask to borrow your mower and tell you I'll give it back when I finish mowing my lawn. But after I mow my lawn and you want the mower back, I refuse. That is wrong and it is stealing and it is wrong and stealing no matter how much wrongdoing other people get away with. Just because, say, OJ Simpson got away with murder does not mean that murder is now ok.

You already spent the money. On education. That stimulated our economy. And imagine how much it would damage our economy if everyone decided they longer needed to pay back money they borrowed. BTW, we're not "near a depression" and not even in a recession. The economy is doing okay for now.

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youngbuck (Jul 6, 2018 - 9:14 am)

I respectfully disagree. Elie Mystal is a liberal version of Ann Coulter - those on his side of the fence are likely to laugh and feel vindicated by his vitriol, but he's never gonna win any hearts and minds. These past few years, I've had a number of people challenge my deeply held conservative beliefs (being dismissive of "privilege" claims, wholesale support of Voter ID laws, wanting draconian immigration policies, etc) - Elie is not one of them. His snarky tendency to ascribe the worst motives to those he disagrees with is just ugly. If his was the only liberal voice I was ever exposed to, I would be wearing my MAGA hat right now. I stopped reading ATL once Lat left him in charge.

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onehell (Jul 9, 2018 - 2:41 pm)

FWIW, no one "wins hearts and minds" because hearts and minds don't change. It simply doesn't happen. Remember that now-debunked California study?

https://retractionwatch.com/2015/05/20/author-retracts-study-of-changing-minds-on-same-sex-marriage-after-colleague-admits-data-were-faked/

In fact, the "backfire effect" usually ensures that even when someone is conclusively proven wrong, e.g. by facts and figures, they just dig in all the more.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

Political experts have long known this: No one "wins" an issue debate in the sense that they actually change anyone from one side to another. It simply doesn't happen with any statistically significant frequency. Once someone has "taken a side," they believe what they believe and no amount of rational argument will change it. So political campaigns focus on using data to identify people who are already likely to agree with them and just get them to turn out to the polls.

So the point is that it doesn't really matter if someone like Mystal is only preaching to the quire and takes little interest in presenting moderated rational arguments intended to persuade. People who have an opinion already can't be persuaded to change it, our brains just don't work that way. It's actually a bigger mystery why anyone even bothers pretending to be unbiased. We are a fundamentally tribal species - we choose the groups we belong to (such as liberal or conservative or libertarian) and then which approach ultimately controls public policy is really only a matter of who happens to be able to assemble a bigger army of like-minded people at a given time, such as an election.

We all find our tribes and then preach to the quire. The only question is whose quire is bigger at relevant times, which of course swings back and forth, but the idea of a reasoned argument persuading someone of something when they had a preexisting opposite belief is basically fiction. So Mystal should go right ahead and spout vitriol that invigorates those who already agree, if that is in fact what he is doing. There would be no point in doing otherwise.

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isthisit (Jul 6, 2018 - 9:31 am)

Elie is a bigger racist than the Klan.

I stopped reading ATL once they got rid of comments. That was the last piece of worthwhile journalism on that site.

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pherc (Jul 6, 2018 - 1:24 pm)

You can’t be serious.

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isthisit (Jul 6, 2018 - 3:03 pm)

I am.

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pherc (Jul 6, 2018 - 4:11 pm)

You do realize the KKK has literally murdered and terrorized people of color, right?

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isthisit (Jul 6, 2018 - 4:53 pm)

I do. Elie is a racist who writes inflammatory articles. He's probably not a murderer but I wasn't comparing body counts just the level of vitriol his publication puts out into the world.

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pherc (Jul 6, 2018 - 4:54 pm)

You’re an idiot.

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isthisit (Jul 6, 2018 - 6:27 pm)

You sound like an ATL editor.

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orgdonor (Jul 7, 2018 - 4:27 pm)

He is a racist. He blames another race for his problems.

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brokelawyer (Jul 6, 2018 - 5:24 pm)

Same here. The comments were hilarious. The articles themselves were juvenile.

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inindiana (Jul 6, 2018 - 6:28 pm)

Would be great if Partner Emeritus were to resurface somewhere

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wutwutwut (Jul 7, 2018 - 11:45 pm)

Someone had a weblog page up of a lot or even most of his comments, a nice treasure trove if you will, but eventually that was taken down. Maybe still available using wayback or its similar ilk.

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jackofspeed (Jul 6, 2018 - 1:10 pm)

Next time he's at a Federalist Society meeting hopefully a moderator will ask him about his recent comments.

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massivemissive (Jul 6, 2018 - 2:54 pm)

He’s a clown

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wolfman (Jul 7, 2018 - 1:19 am)

Elie now is a walrus-level creature that pretends to be a journalist.

He used to occasionally show flashes of empathy and insight, mostly when talking about the scam, probably because he was himself affected (I heard that he got canned from the big law job he got out of HLS, maybe due to not passing C&F... don't know how true that is; he certainly wrote about defaulting on his private loans). In any case, the legal "profession" certainly was a big mistake for him, and he used to be somewhat human when writing about that... he could have built on that foundation.

Unfortunately, he was always a racial grievance monger, and this got worse and worse as the scam receded into his past and the Trump derangement syndrome took over. Once the comments were gone from ATL (I think they actually pulled them to protect other authors, who were even more of a joke) they had no objective feedback at all. Elie now is literally a caricature, and he wasn't always one, but no one will tell him or Lat or the rest of whatever it is they have going over there now... so I wonder if he even knows.

I went to ATL for the second time in more than a year just because of this thread (I looked once when the salary thing broke a little while ago) and it was sad just sad. ATL was never completely real (did it ever make money or did Lats' MD parents just fund it?) but now... it's like what you'd think a legal news site would be if your daddy was a lawyer and worked in a big law office but you yourself were in a car accident when you were nine and never really developed afterwards).

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esquirewalletsmatter (Jul 7, 2018 - 9:16 am)

At the same time, you would love to work for the Confederate Attorney General so your bias prevents you from truly appreciating Elie’s craft. His rhetoric may be impassioned, but he’s not incorrect. Justice, especially for blacks, is almost nonexistent. My only beef is that he doesn’t throw in the poor as well. The system is fixed and it is a System of a Down.

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massivemissive (Jul 8, 2018 - 10:26 am)

What a bunch of bs

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esquirewalletsmatter (Jul 8, 2018 - 12:00 pm)

Supporter of corporate welfare, I see. It’s okay to prop up multi national corps that hide their taxable profits overseas, but not the common man. That is what is the bs, my friend. Or the wonderful tax reform that further enriches multi national corps and white wealthy tax avoiders at the expense of everyone else. Then they spend the money on share buy backs and increasing dividends to the elite caste. What a wonderful country, by the people for the people and of the people, indeed. The white wealthy people.

What else can one expect from a country that was founded by and operated for the benefit of the wealthy landowning white males while those like my wife and children were enslaved and sold at the market.

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nycatt (Jul 7, 2018 - 11:21 am)

Youngbuck, I think you should consider reading someone like Elie because his writing is honest and is representative of a group that you probably don't hear from a lot. Sometimes he is not the most eloquent, but sometimes he is, and you know a lot of people are feeling that way so it worth considering. That is why I read National Review even though it makes me vomit in my mouth.

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esquirewalletsmatter (Jul 7, 2018 - 1:53 pm)



Credited

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orgdonor (Jul 8, 2018 - 12:18 pm)

What do you mean "representative of a group that you probabnly don't hear from a lot"? This is ALL I hear. First - how baseless and arrogant to assume what someone else hears or not.

Second, how pedantic is your tone? You overweening condescendor! Do you think your, "polite advice," is persuasive when couched in terms that implicitly belittle another person's understanding?

Finally - you are wrong. At least to the extent I can take your comments as addressed generally to those who think Elie is a "racial grievance monster," (love that term). The threat of being referred to as a "racist," is so acute that no one dares say a harsh word about any black person - for fear of having his life ruined by Shaun King and the twitterati. The backlash against racism has run to the point where even a wrong look is worthy of "cultural re-education," by Chairman Mystal and his comrades. Think "micro aggression."

The consequence of this, however, is not an increased tolerance - but avoidance. And a Balkanization of America's racial groups. The murder of police officers sitting in their cruisers doing nothing wrong.

Guys like Elie profit - directly - from race-baiting. They don't care about the harm it does. He's not a journalist - he's a profiteer.

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esquirewalletsmatter (Jul 8, 2018 - 1:10 pm)

Racism abounds. Walk around every day with a Jamaican wife and see how both whites and blacks respond. Shouldn’t have to carry protection when traveling to Pennsyltucky, but I do. Difference between the racism is the white side is more violent and aggressive. But those in their privileged white ivory tower wouldn’t know of such things, right? Doesn’t concern you. You don’t have to live with it every day. You aren’t hated for and discriminated against for simply how you were born over which you have no control. Your more worried about being perceived as a racist, yet are complicit with the actual racists by offering their side your support. Thanks bro. Thanks for helping out.

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orgdonor (Jul 8, 2018 - 1:43 pm)

ESW: thanks for proving my point. You just called me a racist. See! See!

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esquirewalletsmatter (Jul 8, 2018 - 2:20 pm)

No I said ur perception of being racist. I don’t know if you are or not, just not helping the cause.

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orgdonor (Jul 8, 2018 - 4:16 pm)

The "cause" of a better existence for black peoples is hindered - not helped - by making so much of race. Poor whites and poor blacks have far more aligned interests than rich and poor people. Talk of race divides, rather than creates coalitions.

I doubt many white people harbor literal animosity towards black people. But guys like Elie make it seem like the reverse is true - because it profits them personally at the expense of a coalition of poors.

Saying "race this and race that!" Doesn't accomplish anything. Saying, teacher testing not student testing helps everyone. Saying, we need more trains helps everyone.

Elie, with all his power and the privilege of his position, only cares about himself.

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nycatt (Jul 8, 2018 - 4:49 pm)

This is the statement that I think a lot of the disagreement boils down to:

"I doubt many white people harbor literal animosity towards black people."

The issue is, even if just 1% or 2% of people are outward racists, it is enough to impact minorities in an area.

Growing up as the only jewish kid in very rural area, maybe just 1% or 2% of the people were neo nazis, but they harassed the crap out of me, threw pennies at me, threatened me, and made me feel powerless. A few of those kids became police officers, and I want to note that neo nazis organization encourage their members to become police and take other positions of power in order to promote their agenda.

In an event, if I was a black kid in my town, and I had a bunch of jacked white guys screaming the N word at me growing up, being scared to be pulled over by the police, I would be a lot madder than Elie.

In any event, while you may not see much racism, that doesn't mean it does not exist, albeit hidden. Those neo-nazis that were harassing me didn't advertise themselves as nazis to other people. It may be true that 99% of the people around you do are not racist, but the few who are won't tell you, and they will cause problems for others wherever they can without getting caught

Yeah, I know there are some people who cry wolf in racism claims - and I have litigated against them. I also have law school friends that work for NYC and defend police officers and prison guards from false claims of abuse - I know a lot false claims of excessive force exists. But, that can be true, and the same time, it can also be true that actual racism is happening out there and it is affecting a lot of people.

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orgdonor (Jul 8, 2018 - 10:12 pm)

Is it possible that the daily discussions of race ("the first black X"!!) and the "hooookay then buddy, you are complicit in racism," crap is making us more divided?

The reality is that some percentage of people are just mean spirited. They'd be unpleasant to anyone weaker for any fathomable reason. That's an unstoppable reality of human nature. Why does it matter if people are jerks because of race, or homosexuality? The jerk gene is species driven.

By focusing on race an excuse is made for black jerks, or Jewish jerks. There's no excuse. And I think fewer people would feel privileged to be jerks overall, if the focus was on the bullying behavior - and not on whatever meaningless excuse is used to justify it.

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nycatt (Jul 8, 2018 - 1:25 pm)

Orgdonor,

Guys like Elie are just giving their honest opinions based on their first hand observations. Why does this bother you so much? The guy does not hate white people - to me, he seems to write about the law and his experiences with racism.

And why are you so worried about being called a racist? Is this a thing?

And thanks for the lesson in neutral tone.

Edit: By the way, I not am arguing Elie is a great writer. I am NOT saying that. I just think his take is interesting sometimes, comes from an honest place and is in no way race baiting.

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junkwired (Jul 8, 2018 - 1:45 pm)

I agree that Elie is honest and passionate. He's also mostly wrong, and he's a racist. Also, he's an idiot for supporting affirmative action.

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nycatt (Jul 8, 2018 - 5:45 pm)

I was going to respectfully disagree with you but went to the ATL website and saw that this was the headline:

***

Please Enjoy Another Weekend As The Republic Careens Towards Fascism — See Also
By ELIE MYSTAL

WE REALLY DON’T CARE IF YOUR LAW PROFESSOR WAS NICE: If she’s going to serve this president on the Supreme Court, she’s still an ass.

HERE’S SOME MORE STUFF ABOUT THE HORSERACE TO FIGURE OUT WHO WILL RUBBER STAMP TRUMP’S FEVER DREAMS: They all look the same to me.

HERE’S A STORY I WROTE THAT I REALLY DON’T CARE ABOUT: But I understand if associates at this below market firm do.

STACI MADE A GOOD TEXAS REFERENCE IN THIS RAISE STORY: “Lasso” raises. Nice.

OCI IS AROUND THE CORNER: Here’s everything you need to know.

***

LOL

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youngbuck (Jul 9, 2018 - 1:42 pm)

By the time I saw this, orgdonor already responded with everything that I could say. I appreciate other points of view - but I think there's a place for civility. I will discuss my conservative positions with liberals respectfully because I have been taught thats how adults behave. If I start foaming at the mouth, I can hardly blame them for ignoring me - no matter how right my viewpoint may be. Same with Elie. He wants to play the role of Hooper X, let him - he won't have my attention.

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troybrown511 (Jul 9, 2018 - 5:49 am)

lol

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jackofspeed (Jul 9, 2018 - 12:58 pm)

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/07/i-dont-care-who-the-next-supreme-court-nominee-is/

"The Anschluss of the Supreme Court and Trump’s brand of white supremacy is upon us. I don’t give a damn which puppet functionary is installed to do Trump’s bidding."

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