Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Law School only prepared me to apply for food-stamps

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/rec ent-law-school-graduate-g snowday7507/11/18
I actually looked up Southwestern's tuition and it currently finklebots07/11/18
URM get such a large bump in law school admissions this guy irishlaw07/11/18
I am pretty sure that even if he were told this would be the ibrslave07/11/18
I recommend that this unfortunate person take every civil se madathofstra07/11/18
I second that. The civil service system is a Godsend for fol wolfman07/12/18
As I see it, this individual's biggest problem is that he/sh hairypalms07/11/18
True. People on the "outside," even well-meaning people, rea wolfman07/12/18
The Deans of these schools should be in prison. I don't see dietcoke07/11/18
I suspect they sleep very well, on a bed of student loan mon wolfman07/12/18
"Remember that you are loved!" and here's some suicide preve cranky07/11/18
Wait, there’s a Macy’s that’s still open?! ibrslave07/11/18
Isn’t there ediscovery work he could do without a license? underemployedlawyer07/11/18
Depends on where he/she is located. A lot of this non-bar p hairypalms07/11/18
Yeah, you can usually get some "unadmitted JDs" work in plac wolfman07/12/18
They actually just took my link card away. FeelsBadMan. wqwrrrrrt07/12/18
And while it makes for a nice headline, don't kid yourselves wolfman07/12/18
Not to pile on the guy... but law school didnt "prepare" him superttthero07/12/18
While he is at the welfare office, I hope he asks someone ho madathofstra07/12/18
Getting a State of CA job sounds intense based on my 5-ish y snowday7507/12/18
I feel for this individual but not so much. S/he went to law dandydan07/12/18
I wonder if this guy recognizes he has plenty of company? H wutwutwut07/12/18
My sympathy is running dry for these types, at this point, wearyattorney07/12/18
But these bottom tier law schools are trying to target lower cranky07/12/18
Government contractor doc review is paralegal work. You don underemployedlawyer07/13/18
"The word hasn't gotten out to lower income young people abo williamdrayton07/13/18
Option 1: Remain a teacher, positively impact the lives of t wutwutwut07/13/18
just to clarify, I had the same thoughts - overall a very up williamdrayton07/13/18

snowday75 (Jul 11, 2018 - 6:15 pm)

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/recent-law-school-graduate-goes-on-welfare-because-of-inability-to-find-job/

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finklebots (Jul 11, 2018 - 6:43 pm)

I actually looked up Southwestern's tuition and it currently stands at $51,000 a year for the full-time program. If this guy paid full freight with living expenses, and prior UG debt, I think it's conceivable he's really $300k in the hole, as he claims.

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irishlaw (Jul 11, 2018 - 6:47 pm)

URM get such a large bump in law school admissions this guy must have had a sub 2.5 GPA and sub 140 LSAT...should have never gone anyways.

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ibrslave (Jul 11, 2018 - 7:05 pm)

I am pretty sure that even if he were told this would be the outcome going into law school, he would not have believed it and would still be where he is now. And I am sure most pre-law people reading his story disregard it for whatever reason.

Regardless, I am glad to see that the law school scam is still getting some coverage. Let the scammers know that they’re destroying the lives of many.

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madathofstra (Jul 11, 2018 - 7:17 pm)

I recommend that this unfortunate person take every civil service exam within every jurisdiction he would be able to commute to. There has got to be some police/fire department, prison, public hospital, juvenile detention facility, probation department, or social services agency out there that is hiring.

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wolfman (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:55 am)

I second that. The civil service system is a Godsend for folks like that, especially in places like CA or NY. I suspect that, unless he overthinks it, even a person who barely graduated from LS and failed the bar would blow the average civil service exam right out of the water.

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hairypalms (Jul 11, 2018 - 7:49 pm)

As I see it, this individual's biggest problem is that he/she has not passed the CA bar exam. Without bar passage, you're pretty much worthless unless you want to be a paralegal and even then you likely to be viewed as overqualified. I've been in this person's shoes, failed my share of bar exams, and became desperate for employment - of any kind. However, once you do pass, it doesn't necessarily translate into a law job either. I tend to agree with madathofstra, this person should try to get some government job. I just don't see a lot of opportunity for someone that hasn't passed the bar exam and graduated from this law school.

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wolfman (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:58 am)

True. People on the "outside," even well-meaning people, really don't get that there is nothing for you in "law" if you don't have a licence (and paralegaling is no picnic, as I well know). JD is actually the opposite of versatile early in your career - or if you don't have a career.

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dietcoke (Jul 11, 2018 - 8:01 pm)

The Deans of these schools should be in prison. I don't see how they sleep at night.

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wolfman (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:59 am)

I suspect they sleep very well, on a bed of student loan money. That's the difference between sociopaths and decent folks - the former have convinced themselves none of this is in any way their fault.

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cranky (Jul 11, 2018 - 8:08 pm)

"Remember that you are loved!" and here's some suicide prevention hotlines. Great advice from the journalist. This poor guy never should have gone to law school in the first place but at least he's getting his story heard, a little. I find it surprising that all he could get was a temp job selling watches at Macy's.

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ibrslave (Jul 11, 2018 - 9:41 pm)

Wait, there’s a Macy’s that’s still open?!

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underemployedlawyer (Jul 11, 2018 - 9:46 pm)

Isn’t there ediscovery work he could do without a license?

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hairypalms (Jul 11, 2018 - 10:39 pm)

Depends on where he/she is located. A lot of this non-bar passage doc review work has dried up over the years with the continued saturation of the legal profession.

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wolfman (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:54 am)

Yeah, you can usually get some "unadmitted JDs" work in places like Charlotte and Nashville (but the pay is usually awful) as well as NYC (the pay may be marginally better, but COL is way higher).

But it's tough to make a living from that, unless you have another skill, like a foreign language, and even then it's no picnic (most FL reviews want admitted attorneys).

One of the reasons I got out of doc review was the difficulty of getting work without a licence (I passed the bar but have student loan issues). If I manage to get admitted and maybe learn another in-demand language, I might consider going back to it - or I might not.

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wqwrrrrrt (Jul 12, 2018 - 12:36 am)

They actually just took my link card away. FeelsBadMan.

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wolfman (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:47 am)

And while it makes for a nice headline, don't kid yourselves, folks, law school actually screws up your ability to SUCCESSFULLY apply for public assistance just like it screws up your ability to do many other things... mostly by making you ashamed of your "failure," as well as hyper-vigilant and apprehensive about the many omissions and half-truths that go into most such applications... while the vast majority of folks who apply for and get such things just blow past those without a second thought, and just shrug it off if they get caught.

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superttthero (Jul 12, 2018 - 6:18 am)

Not to pile on the guy... but law school didnt "prepare" him to fill out the welfare forms. It is really a useless place.

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madathofstra (Jul 12, 2018 - 8:04 am)

While he is at the welfare office, I hope he asks someone how he can get hired there. He could end up with a lawyer position (eventually) by starting out there. Processing the apps most likely requires only a BA and an exam, so he’s qualified. Meanwhile, these places have fair hearings up the wazoo whenever there is a denial. If he passes the bar, he would have an excellent shot of lateraling over to the legal department.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 8:55 am)

Getting a State of CA job sounds intense based on my 5-ish years on this Board.

I do agree that unless he passes the bar he is worthless, and also that his underlying mental collapse has become a barrier.

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dandydan (Jul 12, 2018 - 9:41 am)

I feel for this individual but not so much. S/he went to law school post 2012, when the word was out. If s/he made an adult decision by either ignoring warning signs or by negligently not looking at warning signs then s/he acted like a fool. With a saturated market and lower tier graduates having difficulty, you know what you are getting yourself into. Third Tier Reality and its ilk were around three years ago when this individual took the law school plunge.

If you cannot pass the bar then you cannot practice, which has nothing to do with the law school. Now, there are techniques that you can learn for taking the bar successfully and many of those techniques can be found for free on line.

Going to law school is about gaining knowledge. It is not a skills-driven enterprise. This is a well-known fact. Law graduates do not have skill sets, generally. Therefore, having a law degree does not give you the right to have a job. Nobody owes you a job because you graduated LS. You need to make something of yourself. There are ways to accomplish that but this is JDU.

Good luck at the food stamps office, you'll need it.

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wutwutwut (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:44 pm)

I wonder if this guy recognizes he has plenty of company? His LS for 2017 grads had over 20% who ended up fully and wholly unemployed. Another 10% were woefully under-employed.

Only some 40% actually got lawyer jobs. And of them, the clear majority (85 of 124 graduates) were solos or working in "small firms" of 2-10 lawyers. I always wonder how many of those "small firms" are actually brand new firms of 2-3 newgrads, huddled together for warmth?

Oh, and LST puts the total annual COA at $83K, so it's easy to see how he's 300K in debt.

Anyone considering this school should take a hard look at those numbers. And it's not really even a bottom-barrel school. The LSAT numbers are 150/152/155 which, while not very high, are better than the bottom scummers like Cooley at 139/142/146.

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wearyattorney (Jul 12, 2018 - 5:12 pm)

My sympathy is running dry for these types, at this point, I just have one question: why is the federal government subsidizing this disaster

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cranky (Jul 12, 2018 - 7:30 pm)

But these bottom tier law schools are trying to target lower income minorities like the poor guy featured in the article. He mentioned that he grew up in the ghetto and going to law school was supposed to lead to his success.

The word hasn't gotten out to lower income young people about how terrible the legal job market is. That is why I cringe at and won't support those hokey bar association events that try to talk about going to law school to poor/underrepresented minority students. Many of these kids come from families where their parents didn't even go to college, and they still think being a lawyer is a ticket to wealth and prestige. Everyone's going to be the next Johnnie Cochran or Thurgood Marshall.

If only the guy could reach out to some black lawyers groups in southern Cal to do some networking. He still needs to buckle down to pass the bar though.

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underemployedlawyer (Jul 13, 2018 - 12:26 pm)

Government contractor doc review is paralegal work. You don’t need a license and it pays better than non foreign language Agency doc review

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williamdrayton (Jul 13, 2018 - 12:29 pm)

"The word hasn't gotten out to lower income young people about how terrible the legal job market is"

TITCR by cranky

I recently read that laws school applications from "top" colleges (Ivies, Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, etc) have dropped like an anvil heading for Wily E. Coyote's head. yet people from the hood and the barrio keep running to get that illusory brass ring.

this story is pathetic: http://www.philly.com/philly/education/quamiir-trice-philadelphia-schools-mentor-black-male-teachers-20180711.html

long story short - thug drug dealer really does turn his life around, finishes colleges and gets a ghetto public school teaching job; disillusioned with his career choice, he openly contemplates: LAW SCHOOL

I want to get a hologram of Sam Kinison to grab this fool by the collar and yell directly in his ear: why would you give up job security, automatic salary increases, defined benefit pension and lifetime health benefits for a chance to finish middle of the class at Drexel, Temple or Villanova, and find yourself focked with a mountain of non-dischargeable debt

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wutwutwut (Jul 13, 2018 - 2:06 pm)

Option 1: Remain a teacher, positively impact the lives of thousands of young people.

Option 2: Go to LS, quite likely positively wreck your own life and positively impact the lives of practically no one else.

It's really a crying shame the administration at his first teaching job let him down so badly. But it may be looking up - once he connected with his old principal and started teaching there, it seems he's a lot more happy than he was teaching at that first school.

Any Philly lawyers in the house know anyone named in the story? If nothing else, getting someone to slip Mr. Trice the LST website could do some good.

Great personal story overall and glad to have learned of it, excepting the LS part.

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williamdrayton (Jul 13, 2018 - 2:53 pm)

just to clarify, I had the same thoughts - overall a very uplifting story - the only part that was pathetic was the clueless fantasizing about law school.

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