Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Simkovic: Vermont Law School, good value

Fourth Tier law schools are mostly terrible value for grads ichininosan08/09/18
I am grateful for people like him because they showed me the wearyattorney08/09/18
Are republican politicians not also part of the government? e36m308/09/18
In the domestic context, Republicans usually hurt people by wearyattorney08/09/18
You're mad at the wrong people, weary. Both parties are equ quillan08/09/18
This is my personal opinion on a political matter: I doub wearyattorney08/09/18
Ah, Simkovic. Interesting that he criticizes another attorne 6figuremistake08/09/18
“low default rates.” Put lipstick all over that pig, dupednontraditional08/09/18
Much nonsense to defend the scam. First, even per the ABA's toooldtocare08/09/18
IBR makes it impossible to default. No one with federal loan um1l08/09/18
"What makes people think Simkovic is a Dem? He sure acts lik wutwutwut08/09/18
The contribution was awhile back but I fail to see how votin um1l08/10/18
At best, the Dems will go for loan forgiveness with no accou wearyattorney08/10/18
The problem is that Dems pretend a broken system is actually dupednontraditional08/10/18
The scam is beaten, bruised, and ridiculed, yet it lives on. dietcoke08/09/18
Leiter = Shill. How can people defend these practices with hairypalms08/10/18
Speaking generally, they believe their own BS. Professo patenttrollnj08/10/18
Even back in the 80s and 90s, fourth tier law schools were l patenttrollnj08/10/18
And the Republicans don’t give corporate welfare? Dems sho um1l08/10/18
I think your reply was meant for another comment (see above) patenttrollnj08/10/18
That would be too rationale. They can’t stop talking abou tedandlisa12308/10/18
Plenty of conservatives are for ending the federal student l wearyattorney08/10/18
The loan program shouldn’t be ended, just completely chang um1l08/10/18
Yeah what you say makes sense, but Dems will never allow tha wearyattorney08/10/18
Personally I support the Warren/Sanders economic left wing a um1l08/10/18
Listen folks. If the banks were lent 700 billion to bail the lawnotforme08/12/18

ichininosan (Aug 9, 2018 - 1:41 am)

Fourth Tier law schools are mostly terrible value for grads who dump six-figure debt into an at-best outside chance of recouping their losses.

But, guess what? There is a law school professor, ready at hand, to point out that the blue sky you see is actually pink. Have at it:

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2018/07/northwestern-lecturer-mark-a-cohens-angry-outburst-on-twitter-michael-simkovic.html

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wearyattorney (Aug 9, 2018 - 2:11 am)

I am grateful for people like him because they showed me the real evils of government and liberalism. Anyone that went to law school and votes for a Democrat at any point during the rest of their life, after seeing these people in action, deserves the misery coming their way. Sociopaths took over the government regulatory appartii and are using them to fleece the tax payers, enrich themselves, and destroy the country. This guy is just a microcosm.

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e36m3 (Aug 9, 2018 - 9:37 am)

Are republican politicians not also part of the government? Is it only liberals who are part of the government regulatory apparatii that are fleecing the people and enriching themselves? Doesn’t seem like a party issue to me. It’s everywhere.

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wearyattorney (Aug 9, 2018 - 1:34 pm)

In the domestic context, Republicans usually hurt people by government inaction, eg they capture the government and it doesn’t act which causes harm. Democrats use the government to hurt people, eg guaranteed funding for this liberal POS to pillage the poor, naive and stupid at the expense of the public coffers.

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quillan (Aug 9, 2018 - 6:16 pm)

You're mad at the wrong people, weary. Both parties are equally responsible for the various education loan debacles, albeit for different reasons. The Rs not only hurt people through inaction (consumer rights or poison water) but through action - starting baseless wars, taxing the middle class to subsidize corporate interests and defense contractors, taking away the right to vote, imprisoning the poor and minorities for minor offenses, and under the current administration starting unwinnable trade wars and separating kids from their parents. While I have plenty of criticisms for the dems, at this point anyone voting for Republicans is voting against self interest unless they are a religious nut or a billionaire.

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wearyattorney (Aug 9, 2018 - 7:02 pm)

This is my personal opinion on a political matter:

I doubt five percent of the entire nation wide law faculty is conservative. The rest are liberals and Democrats. What did they do? They took over the regulatory apparatus responsible for regulating the quality of legal education and diluted it strictly for their benefit. When the bar exam stood in the way, the cried racism. They have ensured that the federal government supplys them an unlimited amount of money irrespective of outcomes, with the cost being born by the tax payers. Any attempt to reign this in is met with an assertion of racism, some other identity politics BS, and class warfare. This is done solely for the benefit of the members of the academy so they can steal, and they know exactly what they are doing.

In order to facilitate these schemes, you need an uninformed and ignorant electorate. We are very well informed about the scam and can see through Simcovik’s deviousness, lies and sociopathy. Do you think someone on welfare or other similarly situated recipient of government benefits can understand (or wants to understand) this scam, which is merely a microcosm of the larger scams going on?

Let’s look at the structure of the argument on immigration and trade. It’s the same thing. If you don’t want unlimited immigration and open trade in one direction, you are a racist.

Your standard democrat has so much envy though for the dwindling number of people that are able to survive the increasingly more elaborate scams perpetrated by these types that no amount of evidence will convince them otherwise.

I can’t fathom how anybody that understands the law school scam can in any way shape or form support modern liberalism. It’s clear as day the thievery (government backed scams and regulations) and the gun used for the scams (identity politics).

I’m angry at the right people.

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6figuremistake (Aug 9, 2018 - 8:55 am)

Ah, Simkovic. Interesting that he criticizes another attorney for his lack of statistical credentials when commenting on the self evident lousy value of a low tier law degree. If I'm not mistaken, Simkovic produced his "Million Dollar Guarantee JD" study by himself. Maybe he had some assistance from an economist but otherwise, it doesn't seem like his credentials are much more impressive.

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dupednontraditional (Aug 9, 2018 - 3:53 pm)

“low default rates.”

Put lipstick all over that pig, Simkovic, the reality is that IBR and related programs are soft-defaults to make the numbers look better. Cohen’s response is to this and other kinds of intellectual (government) dishonesty, such as the sleight-of-hand tricks people use to mince words.

The Cartel will say whatever it has to say in order to keep the dupes coming in, and this has been demonstrated over time because it lives off the gub’mint teat. It’s no different than saying “employment is up or down,” depending on whether you use the federal U-3 definition or the U-6 definition. How anyone can be proud of this level of chicanery is astounding.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. And I say that as someone who is a fan of statistics.

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toooldtocare (Aug 9, 2018 - 4:38 pm)

Much nonsense to defend the scam.
First, even per the ABA's overly generous definitions, for 2017, for the 124 Vermont graduates, 19 were flat out unemployed. That's over 15% unemployment 9 months after graduation; BLS has the US unemployment rate at 3.9%. So...if Vermont, et al, are so great, why an unemployment rate almost 4x the national average?
Second, he wastes a lot of time on default rates, and pretty much ignores delinquency.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/062315/what-are-differences-between-delinquency-and-default.asp
Most lenders prefer to dance around the edge of delinquency, as default forces them to actually do something with the loan that isn't getting paid.While they get a lot of additional collection powers, they usually want to work with the borrower to get the money back without invoking those draconian powers.
Third, the language uses is opaque at best. For example
"More than the top 75 percent of law graduates are getting good value relative to a terminal bachelor’s degree.[2]" means that 25% of the people with terminal bachelors are doing better than the poor soul who got that fourth-tier JD for 200K.

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um1l (Aug 9, 2018 - 5:10 pm)

IBR makes it impossible to default. No one with federal loans should ever default, what is needed and probably will happen is the tax bomb elimination. What makes people think Simkovic is a Dem? He sure acts like a swamp Republican

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wutwutwut (Aug 9, 2018 - 9:20 pm)

"What makes people think Simkovic is a Dem? He sure acts like a swamp Republican

JFC um1l, are you serious?

How hard would it have been for you to look him up on open secrets (as I did) and learn in less than 10 seconds that he's a big Elizabeth Warren (D) contributor?

Or are you just fake news trolling here?

Don't put yourself out on your reader's behalf, of course.

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um1l (Aug 10, 2018 - 12:36 am)

The contribution was awhile back but I fail to see how voting for Republicans and their plans to eliminate IBR or extend the period to 30 years is beneficial to any students. What they should do in 2020 if the Democrats have total control is bailout all student loans older than 2005 and make it PSLF for everyone (10 years IBR, tax free). As part of this they should end the unlimited funding to schools and make all schools get a public audit, publish all admin/dean/professor salaries in order to receive any federal funding. Many of both parties are responsible for the student loans but the GOP plan puts people on a path to ruin.

Some of Simkovic's ideas are with the conservative loansharks:
http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-a-brilliant-solution-on-student-loans-20150904-column.html

"Risk-based" student loans aren't a new idea. Among those who have promoted it are Michael Simkovic of Harvard Law School, in a 2011 paper.

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wearyattorney (Aug 10, 2018 - 3:04 am)

At best, the Dems will go for loan forgiveness with no accountability for outcome or tuition increases.

The Dems and liberals control education 100 percent, and the type of scam they are running in education, is the type of scam they are running period. Namely, massive private institutions partnering with the government to form unnaccoutnable institutions that pillage the public coffers and squeeze the little guy by taxation and regulation. Identity politics and class warfare always being the shield to establish the partnerships and maintain them.

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dupednontraditional (Aug 10, 2018 - 5:42 am)

The problem is that Dems pretend a broken system is actually just fine, because it benefits them and their friends. Sure, a handful like Warren say “this is bad,” but the reality is that Pelosi and many others get funding and support from the educational cartel, so they look the other way.

Repubs say “who cares, let it and all the lib profs and lib kids burn, haha” while thousands of students get the shaft for doing something that society ostensibly wants them to do (ie an “educated” populace.) When the SHTF, they hypocritically say “well, you shouldn’t have got yourself in the situation in the first place.” Plus some of them benefit from how things are set up currently as well.

No one wants to sit down and actually fix something that’s broken, because that requires actual work and this has taken on a life of its own in the meantime. The Frankenstein’s monster is already out in the countryside now, and too many other things (healthcare, defense spending, russia) take center stage.

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dietcoke (Aug 9, 2018 - 5:19 pm)

The scam is beaten, bruised, and ridiculed, yet it lives on.

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hairypalms (Aug 10, 2018 - 8:45 am)

Leiter = Shill. How can people defend these practices with a straight face? Perhaps money.

The response regarding IBR is a good one. IBR just makes the numbers look better, but the reality is quite different. A day of reckoning will come at some point.

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patenttrollnj (Aug 10, 2018 - 9:57 am)

Speaking generally, they believe their own BS.

Professors were once idealistic too once upon a time. Then, suddenly, some scam blogs started confronting them with facts that their students are unemployed and depressed. Their whole sense of self is suddenly being attacked, not to mention their livelihood.

It's a massive existential crisis for them.

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patenttrollnj (Aug 10, 2018 - 10:07 am)

Even back in the 80s and 90s, fourth tier law schools were laughed at.

I can understand professors defending a top 50 school, since, objectively speaking, it's a rather shocking fact to anyone that a law school in the top 50 is worthless. However, a toilet school?

No.

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um1l (Aug 10, 2018 - 11:12 am)

And the Republicans don’t give corporate welfare? Dems should consider a deal where the unlimited subsidies to schools end in exchange for forgiveness for current borrowers. The whole system needs to change but don’t pretend like the GOP has any solution whatsoever

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patenttrollnj (Aug 10, 2018 - 11:14 am)

I think your reply was meant for another comment (see above).

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tedandlisa123 (Aug 10, 2018 - 1:20 pm)

That would be too rationale. They can’t stop talking about open borders, Black Lives Matter, and vagina tapes.

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wearyattorney (Aug 10, 2018 - 2:57 pm)

Plenty of conservatives are for ending the federal student loan program, that will fix this and other problems.

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um1l (Aug 10, 2018 - 3:47 pm)

The loan program shouldn’t be ended, just completely changed. Like the feds only guarantee up to x dollars and allow some private lending but strict regulations/bankruptcy protection for borrowers. Find me a single elected Republican who proposed getting rid of even the tax bomb with IBR, much less shortening the timeframe.

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wearyattorney (Aug 10, 2018 - 6:04 pm)

Yeah what you say makes sense, but Dems will never allow that. It has to be “free,” available to everyone irrespective of ability, and without price controls. Anything short of that is racist. At least with elimination some rationality can come back into the system.

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um1l (Aug 10, 2018 - 7:01 pm)

Personally I support the Warren/Sanders economic left wing and not the SJW which I would identify more as Kamala Harris, Gillibrand and Cory Booker. Warren knows she needs to pay lip service to this part of the party but I don’t view her as the problem.

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lawnotforme (Aug 12, 2018 - 7:21 am)

Listen folks. If the banks were lent 700 billion to bail them out of the financial crisis, I am dure uncle Sam can lend itself money or lend these institutions money which they will invest and make money in like the banks.

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