Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

hilarious post by areyouinsane from top law school. must read

Exactly. For example, at the shitlaw personal injury firm I qbjhn08/21/11
does this guy post on jdu too? qbjhn08/21/11
That is pretty awesome. Frida208/21/11
That's Scott Bullock. unfrozenlawyer08/21/11
YTMND Scottie! orgdonor08/22/11
TLS reads more like JDU than ever. The tide has turned. digitalserf08/21/11
Can this guy please write a book? I'd be happy to ghost edi jdog8408/21/11
"Shitlaw Confidential" digitalserf08/21/11
Id buy it, lol AssociateX08/25/11
I'm impressed by the fact that this guy didn't just checkout goingnowherefast08/21/11
Oh god I can't stop laughing. This shit is 1000x more podunk PanhandleShitlaw08/21/11
having practiced in nyc shitlaw PI for about 5 years, i've g severian208/21/11
why are you keeping them to yourself? qbjhn08/21/11
I have a few stories myself as well, probably not as colorfu AssociateX08/22/11
areyouinsane is great. Damn good writer as well. He really wawaweewa08/21/11
someone shoudl start a blog of his posts. I don't want to ha qbjhn08/21/11
as an nyls grad, this post has a special place in my heart. severian208/21/11
I know I practice shitlaw, but I have remarkably few stories PanhandleShitlaw08/21/11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwG RJA28lY ishten08/22/11
i love all the things he hates about shitlaw tbh. i find it sandawg08/22/11
apparently, you are too dumb to understand the answer, even crazyfool08/22/11
what's that supposed to mean? ---- i actually found the ad sandawg08/22/11
Completely wonderful and all too true. tranquiljd08/22/11
"I was downright incredoulous to see 2 and 3 L friends who s Bostonlawyer.208/22/11
I've been sharing areyouinsane's anecdotes with a co-worker goingnowherefast08/25/11
Bump. Does anyone have stories this good? ambulancechaser201310/06/17

qbjhn (Aug 21, 2011 - 8:27 pm)

Exactly. For example, at the shitlaw personal injury firm I worked at, you are sent to court the very first day of work with no guidance or instruction whatsoever. Sure it was only a preliminary conference and a motion that stipped out, but understand that no one has the time or inclination for hand holding & formal training in shitlaw. You're just thrown to the wolves & it's sink or swim.

At this shitlaw office the partners were very macho and viewed asking questions as a sign of weakness/incompetence. The trial partner even told me he "doesn't like being asked a million questions" and mocking shit like "are you suckling babies gonna come in here every 5 minutes and say "Mr. Partner, my pen ran out of ink- should I get a new one?" He said "learn by doing."

I was stuck in front of the notorious NY County Judge Ira Gammerman (known as Get 'Em Picked Gammerman" one day and a case we wanted to adjourn of course wasn't. I called the office to say I'd be gone all afternoon as we were slated for jury selection at 1 pm. I kinda hinted at like "er, what do I do?" but the partner just said "OK well start picking then" and that was that.

So I had to "wing" it, and actually did OK. My adversary was a nice guy and actually gave me some tips (he was from NYC Law Dept and could've given a shit less about this loser case). That was a good thing, as I had no idea how many preemptory challenges I had, or how to use them, or really how to do anything. I was only admitted to the bar a few weeks earlier and had done nothing before this gig but doc review.

Of course a day or two to learn the law and prepare would be nice, but that's a luxury you won't have in shitlaw. Like McDonald's, they make $$$ on volume and there just isn't any time to properly prepare or work up a file. You just have to wing it and hope for the best, and get whatever $$$ you can before moving on to the next case.

Given the above, try and find a shitlaw place that will let you shadow some lawyers in shitcourt and spend as much time at the office as possible and "learn the ropes" before bar admission. It really will help a lot getting that first personal injury, landlord tenant, or other shitlaw gig. This is a far better use of your time & effort than writing on to Sports Law Journal or some other joke law review wanna-be rag and studying the 2 L bullshit, which is 10 X more boring than first year. Treat your shitlaw internship like a full time job and avoid even going to class or studying altogether. It's almost impossible to get lower than a C- in any lawschool class, even if you don't study at all. There were 2 and 3 L classes where I literally never went to a single class and couldn't pick the prof. out of a lineup. Just pick up some study ads and cram the night before, toss in some buzzwords, take your C- and say fuck it.

I was downright incredoulous to see 2 and 3 L friends who struck out at OCI still studying balls and outlining like it was first semester of One L. These fools just didn't get it that the contest was over, and no matter how many times they checked their ticket, they didn't have the winning numbers. For shitlaw no one ever asks about grades or where you went to school, because most shitlaw "lawyers" are businessmen first and foremost. They spend 100% of their time networking with runners, designing ads, and hustling for files. They're smart enough to know that the "law" is a joke and can be cut n' pasted by any mouth-breathing monkey. There is no research and absolutley no original writing- every single pleading and motion is pure cut n' paste.

In the extremely rare event that a shitlaw case is worth appealing, the savvy shitlawyer farms it out to a per diem (usually a single mom type or retiree who works from home), gives them the file, and a few hundred bucks later gets it dropped off and filed. There is no time whatsoever for associates to do this type of work, since you're in court every morning & at depositions every afternoon. Shitlaw (esp personal injury work) is a real grind, and exhausting with all the running around etc.

My typical day was getting up at 8 am, shower & suit up, get on subway to court in Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens, or Manhattan around 9:15 to 9:30, then running to the 5 or 6 different courtrooms where we had motions or conferences scheduled. You find your case on the calendar outside the courtroom, circle the plaintiff's name, and write your cell # over it so your adversary will know that you are somewhere else and can adjourn it if you can't make it on time or call you to see when you'll be down. Everything is heard on a first-come, first served basis. This isn't "court" like on TV, it's a tiny room with 50 to 100 people reading newspapers, yakking on the phone, talking about last nights Mets game, etc. Most shitlaw motions and conferences are heard by clerks who sit at little card tables. The judge usually never leaves their office- if something is really important you have to ask to see them and get called back there, which can take a loooong time. They are usually very pissed off when things can't be settled or worked out and they have to get involved, so best not to make a habit of bothering them with nonsense.

Usually court wraps up around 11 to 12 noon. Then a quick lunch and off to one of the stenographer offices at Diamond Reporting, Veri-Text, Dietz, or the other shithole broom closets for a deposition. You have to spend at least 1/2 hour prepping the client and getting them ready to answer questions, tell how things happened, etc. Usually they don't speak English so you have to call the office and have secretary interpet via phone while you prep (can't use court interpeter b/c it breaks a/c privilege). Also these "preps" (wink wink) often skirt the boundaries of.... well, let's not go there.

Understand that when you meet the client is the first time you've even heard of their case- as I said, there's no time for preparation or file review or anything like that. You meet them there at the reporter's office, they tell you the story, and then it's off to the races. At most you'll have a copy of the complaint but that's about it.

These depositions are sheer torture, with idiotic questions like "what part of your left foot first came into contact with the puddle of urine you slipped on" and "were you wearing flip-flops or Roman Sandals", shit like that. Then all their medical treatment and aches and pains, etc. Usually the clients fuck up the story since most of them are complete retards, and often they get that "retard anger" after half hour or so and start making threats and calling your adversary a "motherfucker" and just rant that "my shit fucking hurts asshole and I want big money for dis" and so on. Pretty much a complete circus.

Usually after a few cigarettes you limp back to the office by 4 pm, just in time for "calendar meeting" where you get the next day's assignments and scratch together whatever shitpaper documents you need for court. If there's time you make a few phone calls and try to settle some turd cases that the partner left on your desk with a huge "S-ASAP" written in sharpie, which means settle this crap ASAP over the phone for whatever you can get, since it's not worth going the $250 to file a complaint on. Usually you can get $500 or even $750 on these depending on how shitty they are. One we had that was really funny was a homeless lady who walked on foot up to the Wendy's drive-thru window and tripped while getting her food. She got a few bruises and Wendy's forked over $800 bucks to make it go away (they are self-insured so they really don't fight any but the really big claims).

HTH

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qbjhn (Aug 21, 2011 - 8:28 pm)

does this guy post on jdu too?

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Frida2 (Aug 21, 2011 - 8:49 pm)

That is pretty awesome.

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unfrozenlawyer (Aug 21, 2011 - 8:57 pm)

That's Scott Bullock.

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orgdonor (Aug 22, 2011 - 3:30 am)

YTMND Scottie!

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digitalserf (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:01 pm)

TLS reads more like JDU than ever. The tide has turned.

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jdog84 (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:06 pm)

Can this guy please write a book? I'd be happy to ghost edit/co-write.

It'd be like a Kitchen Confidential for the legal world.

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digitalserf (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:44 pm)

"Shitlaw Confidential"

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AssociateX (Aug 25, 2011 - 12:08 am)

Id buy it, lol

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goingnowherefast (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:34 pm)

I'm impressed by the fact that this guy didn't just checkout. To be that thoughtful and articulate about experiences that frustrating and degrading takes insane patience.

Someone give this guy a book deal. Paul Campos will make it required reading for his classes and the bookstore can charge $200 for it.

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PanhandleShitlaw (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:49 pm)

Oh god I can't stop laughing. This shit is 1000x more podunk than where I practice.

The fucking cake taker:
Usually the clients fuck up the story since most of them are complete retards, and often they get that "retard anger" after half hour or so and start making threats and calling your adversary a "motherfucker" and just rant that "my shit fucking hurts asshole and I want big money for dis" and so on.

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severian2 (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:49 pm)

having practiced in nyc shitlaw PI for about 5 years, i've gotta say that scotty fucked nailed it. that is absolute gold. when i was stuck in it i was so miserable, but looking back i gotta say that shit is fucking hilarious. some of my true story cases are so ridiculous. you guys would absolutely love it.

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qbjhn (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:57 pm)

why are you keeping them to yourself?

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AssociateX (Aug 22, 2011 - 2:08 pm)

I have a few stories myself as well, probably not as colorful as Scotty could write it.

Here's my summary of a deposition I took a few months ago on a fender-bender accident.

"So Ms. A__, can you tell me what happened on the day of your auto accident?"

"Well uh..like I was saying, I was with my friend in White Plains and we parked the car in front of this Tavern right on Main Street, it was early Friday night and we were finishing up some shopping...so we were happy to have found a parking spot on that street, you know? It was my car but my friend was driving (male friend), and as he was pulling out, he musta tapped the car behind us.."


"Ms. A, do you remember what car was parked behind you ?"

"Well, not really. I think it was a van maybe? or maybe some SUV? I just know the car made a CRASH sound and then my friend was like, 'what the heck hit us?'..I dont remember.."

"Ms A, do you remember anything else about the impact?"

"Well yea I hit my head real hard against the head rest, you know? It hurt. I was in such pain! It wasn't just once..the car behind us was also trying to get out I think..so it was a big impact, yeah.."

"Ms. A, what did you do after that?"

"Well I hit my head and my knee..but my friend pulled out of the spot and we just kept going. We didn't even go to any cops or fill out any report. He dropped me off at home and I just took some Advil."

"So, Ms A. other than your head hitting the headrest of your car, what other injuries do you claim from this accident?"

"Well, my head and maybe my knees and my elbow..I got whiplash you know!! I had to get physical therapy and chiropractic treatment for 3 months after that!"

"Ms. A, you admit there is no police accident report, right?"

No, my friend didn't think he did anything wrong. He dropped me off and then I had to see a doctor the next day cuz my head hurt so bad...ya know? but the doctor said I needed to get examined every week, so I just went every week like he said."

"I see..."

****************

Yep.

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wawaweewa (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:51 pm)

areyouinsane is great. Damn good writer as well.
He really should pen a book.

I'd be in to put up some money to see this published. Any others? lol

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qbjhn (Aug 21, 2011 - 9:58 pm)

someone shoudl start a blog of his posts. I don't want to have to wade through TLS nonsense to find these.

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severian2 (Aug 21, 2011 - 10:09 pm)

as an nyls grad, this post has a special place in my heart.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=163501

"New York Law School was founded in an abandoned warehouse in Lower Manhattan circa 1997 to serve the emerging field of temporary document review, also known as “contract attorney” work or “coding.”
Recently the school earned the ABA’s first-ever CDRTC designation- Certified Doc Review Training Center. In conjunction with the NALP (National Association of Lawyer Placement), the ABA conducted a “straw poll” of schools with, as outgoing ABA president Carolyn Lamm put it, “special emphasis on supplying heavily indebted, supplicant individuals who will work 19 hour days performing Biglaw’s electronic discovery.” NYLS topped the poll by a wide margin, sending as many as 84% of its graduates directly from law school into temporary contract work at AmLaw 100 firms. The term “salary” was subsequently eliminated from the school’s employment metric in US News, as over 90% of NYLS grads are paid hourly wages without health insurance or any semblance of job security. Rates range anywhere from $14 an hour for entry level, all the way to $32 an hour for those with exotic foreign language skills such as Flemish, or fluency in those weird clicking noises made by African tribesmen.
To celebrate this nascent distinction, Dean Richard “Tricky Dick” Matasar recently sold the law school’s facilities on Worth Street and relocated the institution to a formerly abandoned underground parking garage. Luckily for NYLS, several late 1990s grads had been “squatting” in the facility long enough for the school to color an adverse possession claim and take legal title to the garage.
“We felt the lack of sunlight and severe temperature fluctuations added an additional layer of preparation for document review,” Dean Matasar was quoted as saying. “As doc review typically takes place “off site” in broom closets, basements, furnace rooms and such, we felt this move provides an excellent ‘in the trenches’ experience for our students.”
NYLS has long been at the forefront of electronic discovery education. In 2009, the school took a radical step and eliminated the traditional first-year curriculum of torts, civil procedure, contracts and property, replacing them with doc-review software platform training. To pay for this conversion, the school rasied tution to an eye-popping $45,000 a year. A first-year at NYLS can now look forward to being trained in Summation, Concordance, Ringtail, and other Citrix-based review software. The legal writing program was replaced with a course on inexpensive take-out food menus and “99 cent store nutrition,” both important study areas for future Biglaw temps.
In a move that rocked the legal world, NYLS recently began awarding food-stamp applications in lieu of diplomas. In addition, the school offers “affordable” CLE classes on important document review topics such as suicide methods, food bank shopping, constructing tent shelters, and maps/direction to free clinics and soup kitchens.
“We want our young doc reviewers well-equipped to survive in the NYC area on $21 an hour, Matasar said from his plush office at Access Group, a predatory loan-shark operation with collection powers a Mafia don could only dream of. Matasar serves as Chairman of this “organization,’ which supplies a bottomless pit of high-interest, non-dischargeable private loans to NYLS students.
The school’s name is an interesting story in itself. For those grads who desired employment outside the NYC area, it was imperative that a name be chosen that might hoodwink non-NYC employers into thinking it was a more prestigious, well-regarded facility as opposed to a mere “diploma mill.” Several possibilities were floated, among them the “Larry M. Cardozo School of Law,” the “Columbine Law School,’ and the simple “Forham,” which merely deleted a crucial consonant.
Ultimately, “New York Law School” won the day, as it offered the maximum amount of bogus “prestige,” and the school’s downtown Manhattan location further bolstered the ruse, as does the “encouraged” resume abbreviation “NY Law School.”
The role of Indian outsourcing in doc review doesn’t worry NYLS, as its grads work so cheaply that “sending work offshore really makes no economic sense,” said Matasar. “Just yesterday, we posted an ad for an unpaid doc-review internship and had to call NYPD for crowd control assistance,” the dean said. He added that the school encourages local Biglaw firms to offer rock-bottom doc review wages to recent grads, as “the added interest and penalties due to our student’s loan defaults are good for Access Group, and what’s good for Access Group is even better for my wallet.”
Recently, the school also launched an LLM concentration in Insurance Defense & Personal Injury Law. This one-of-a-kind program prepares students for the abject disappointment of earning less money than Allstate claims adjusters, most of whom have at best a high school diploma. Other topics include Cut n’ Paste motion practice, begging for adjournments, and how to juggle 600+ files a week while moonlighting as a stripper

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PanhandleShitlaw (Aug 21, 2011 - 10:14 pm)

I know I practice shitlaw, but I have remarkably few stories, unless you count the stuff that gets into police reports from clients going full retard. I've had one or two people flip out and threaten me with violence during crim law depos but it's usually very civil. As for the police report stuff, I don't imagine it's any more extreme than anything from police reports around the country.

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ishten (Aug 22, 2011 - 9:18 am)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svwGRJA28lY

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sandawg (Aug 22, 2011 - 2:05 am)

i love all the things he hates about shitlaw tbh. i find it challenging to learn the case in the courtroom while waiting to be called. clients expect you to jump around like a monkey, so if are are flinging feces around the courtroom, the clients will generally be pleased even if you lose.

imo it beats staring at a comp all day. last week i had 3 hearings, all at 9:00 am, two were in South County, one in downtown San Diego. Walked into the downtown hearing an hour late, still putting papers in order as judge takes bench. how is that not fun?

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crazyfool (Aug 22, 2011 - 2:39 am)

apparently, you are too dumb to understand the answer, even were it given.

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sandawg (Aug 22, 2011 - 2:44 am)

what's that supposed to mean?
----
i actually found the advice, "learn by doing" refreshingly candid. my last job, where the partners were pretentious pricks would say, "ask me anything. i'm always available for your questions."

then when you ask them a question, they get all pissed you are interrupting their work.

then you have to attend boring, mandatory parties, like stupid birthday parties in the middle of the afternoon, or go to a womens basketball game with your boss and eat a pot cookie before you go so you won't smell like weed. yeah, biglaw is great, woohoo.

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tranquiljd (Aug 22, 2011 - 9:18 am)

Completely wonderful and all too true.

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Bostonlawyer.2 (Aug 22, 2011 - 11:55 am)

"I was downright incredoulous to see 2 and 3 L friends who struck out at OCI still studying balls and outlining like it was first semester of One L. These fools just didn't get it that the contest was over, and no matter how many times they checked their ticket, they didn't have the winning numbers."

HA HA! This guy is pure gold and a genius!

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goingnowherefast (Aug 25, 2011 - 4:14 pm)

I've been sharing areyouinsane's anecdotes with a co-worker and described him as being like the Phantom of the Opera.

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ambulancechaser2013 (Oct 6, 2017 - 1:00 am)

Bump. Does anyone have stories this good?

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