Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

TLS goes all JDU

This TLS thread is way more depressing than any JDU threat I karlmarx04/06/12
i'm so happy to see this :) pennycruncher04/06/12
We tried to warn them, we really, really did. And we were s digitalserf04/06/12
Yep. The TLS mods were pathetic, as were the posters who re therewillbeblood04/06/12
Now that would be really cool - a class action by the TLS le relater204/06/12
This is the reason I stopped reading TLS. Strangely, they ca lolcat04/06/12
Thanks for posting this. The thread you linked to is a good tttheaven04/06/12
Lets be fair here guys, people were not being warned to fore worseoffthanaplumber04/06/12
That is true. Most of us were still saying T6 is safe even n cattleprod04/06/12
Yeh, I really can't have too much sympathy for these folks. unfrozenlawyer04/06/12
It's because the culture hasn't caught up to the reality yet inmd04/07/12
Anyone who entered law school in 2008-2009 cannot complain. cattleprod04/06/12
I entered in '08 and was blind to this chatter. The bottom d mbison04/07/12
I entered in 09 and had heard about it. In fact, we had a s kw6713a04/08/12
The linked thread is from 2009, and may or may not be reflec georgecostanza04/06/12
All of this would be ok regarding going to law school, excep thedetroiter04/06/12
The reality of the law school scam will not completely solid thedetroiter04/06/12
Sort of like now? cattleprod04/06/12
I think it's going to take a few more years. Possibly anoth mbison04/07/12
Updates: http://www.top-law-schools.com/foru ms/viewtopic.ph karlmarx04/07/12
TIL I'm in an online gang. Also the chumps at TLS need to isthisit02/22/17
We are true gladiators. Though some may never heal from thei mtobeinf02/22/17
No doubt. I drank the TLS kool-aid pre-Law and 1L year. Now isthisit02/22/17
I keeps it real which is why I love it here. Came out of the mtobeinf02/22/17
Actually, you guys probably already read this, but some of t wily04/09/12
Thank you, Wily. mtobeinf02/22/17
why are you resurrecting a 5 year old thread? dingbat02/22/17
Chaos. But more so it's really interesting. I was 09' gradua mtobeinf02/22/17
The more attorneys I come into contact with through work, th oddis50002/22/17
Couldn't say it better myself. A lot of the best attorneys mtobeinf02/22/17
I know a person that accrued 150k plus of debt for Pace Law attorneyinct02/23/17
☝🏼☝🏼 757;🏼. A lot of bizzybone131302/23/17
Bizzy, you didn't even try. That's pot calling kettle black mtobeinf02/23/17
I don't have $150K in loans from crappy school. I'm 30. The bizzybone131302/23/17
You're barely employed. But we ll discuss that in the proper mtobeinf02/23/17
My hourly rate is good. That's all I got to say. When I wo bizzybone131302/23/17
Think it's a sticky wicket and depends on one's background. mtobeinf02/23/17
☝🏼☝🏼 757;🏼. A lot of bizzybone131302/23/17
At this rate, Bizzy it matters not. You're stuck where my b mtobeinf02/23/17
I have a job. I'm good. I'm not money hungry like 95 perce bizzybone131302/23/17
Good luck man. You do you Scotty P. You do you. mtobeinf02/23/17
This reminds me of the tidbit of wisdom that goes like this: haltomfool05/12/17
A rapper or politician? Wow. Lost in fantasy world, like 95% haltomfool05/12/17



karlmarx (Apr 6, 2012 - 10:20 am)

This TLS thread is way more depressing than any JDU threat I have come across:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=170585

People with great grades/schools considering starbucks positions, someone at a T10 considering killself, just high Greek drama short of shit.

Next time a lemming talks about how they are somehow exempt from the law school scam because they attend a "prestigious T1"- point them to this thread.

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pennycruncher (Apr 6, 2012 - 5:23 pm)

i'm so happy to see this :)

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digitalserf (Apr 6, 2012 - 10:24 am)

We tried to warn them, we really, really did. And we were shut down by the TLS mods. They wanted to keep the funnel of lemmings pouring in, so the law school gravy train would keep rolling.

Now, it's such a devasting time to be a young lawyer and more importatntly, schools are being sued. So truth is finally coming out.

I applaud for lawprof for leading the charge for greater transparency.

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therewillbeblood (Apr 6, 2012 - 4:36 pm)

Yep. The TLS mods were pathetic, as were the posters who responded to any criticism of the legal market by shrieking of course they knew that the economy was bad but they weren't going to let that stop them.

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relater2 (Apr 6, 2012 - 11:21 am)

Now that would be really cool - a class action by the TLS lemmings against the TLS board admin, for allowing them to wallow in delusion, and blocking the voices of truth.

Not that any of them ever listened anyway.

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lolcat (Apr 6, 2012 - 1:42 pm)

This is the reason I stopped reading TLS. Strangely, they can say "sh*tlaw" but we no longer can. I also note that if T10 grads are seeking small firm employment, everyone else is presumably SOL.

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tttheaven (Apr 6, 2012 - 1:46 pm)

Thanks for posting this. The thread you linked to is a good read (I just skimmed it). Initial thoughts:

(1) The OP got screwed when he was no offered after his SA gig with a market firm. Fair or not, every employer is going to question why the firm he summered with didn't decide to bring him on full time.

(2) the T-10 person with no offers is scary. He didn't have a SA gig. Unfortunately, I think a lot of students still put all of their eggs in the big law basket. If that doesn't work out, you're screwed.

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worseoffthanaplumber (Apr 6, 2012 - 2:20 pm)

Lets be fair here guys, people were not being warned to foreogo top 5 schools 2 years ago. This is a true holocaust with no end in sight. This is a real shame.

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cattleprod (Apr 6, 2012 - 5:07 pm)

That is true. Most of us were still saying T6 is safe even now.
I would qualify it now to say that it is down to HYS now for a safe law degree. Just about every other T14 you need to be top 20% to be safe.

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unfrozenlawyer (Apr 6, 2012 - 2:42 pm)

Yeh, I really can't have too much sympathy for these folks. This has been known since I graduated in 2007. 2008/2009 was a bloodbath. Legal services are still losing jobs. The sector is shrinking. What else can we do to explain this to boneheads?

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inmd (Apr 7, 2012 - 1:55 pm)

It's because the culture hasn't caught up to the reality yet. I don't know how often I've explained the situation to 0L's only to be shrugged off.

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cattleprod (Apr 6, 2012 - 4:14 pm)

Anyone who entered law school in 2008-2009 cannot complain. There was enough info out there.

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mbison (Apr 7, 2012 - 10:12 pm)

I entered in '08 and was blind to this chatter. The bottom didn't fall out until the tail end of our first semester.

Even now, I just googled my school and saw nothing negative.

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kw6713a (Apr 8, 2012 - 11:02 pm)

I entered in 09 and had heard about it. In fact, we had a sobering presentation by one of our professors at orientation, when he said we would probably never pay off our student loans in this career because $160,000 jobs were virtually impossible to get but necessary to pay loans comfortably.

I didn't know about scams or the true numbers, but I also knew that legal employment was bad. Didn't know it was on the path to total destruction. Only thought it was temporary.

That probably explains a lot of 0L ambivalence. They probably believe this is temporary, and that when the dow hits 15,000 the big firms will go back to hiring all over the place. They don't realize that it probably will not change.

Really the only difference between this profession and typewriter salesman, carriage repairman, and blacksmith is the entry costs that law students incurred. A blacksmith could probably find an apprenticeship as a carpenter or something and just walk away to a new career. It stung but he was ok. Most recent law grads have to walk away, but it's impossible to walk into a retail career and survive with this debt load.

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georgecostanza (Apr 6, 2012 - 5:50 pm)

The linked thread is from 2009, and may or may not be reflective of the current environment.

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thedetroiter (Apr 6, 2012 - 6:47 pm)

All of this would be ok regarding going to law school, except for the fact that is is nearly impossible, for most people, to wash off the stink of the non-elite JD.

What's bad about a law degree is beyond the fact the job market is nearly impossible save for the gifted, lucky and connected. It's the fact that the hated JD will affirmatively prevent you from pursuing MOST non-law employment. It's tough to bootstrap into something else with the fucking JD around your neck.

Kids, non-law employers hate and loathe the JD. Non-practicing attorneys are treated with suspicion, curiosity and derision by non-law employers UNLESS one has valuable contacts, connections and experiences to offer said employer. Newbies and "straight-through" students beware.

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thedetroiter (Apr 6, 2012 - 6:52 pm)

The reality of the law school scam will not completely solidify and gain traction with the mainstream until a critical mass of upper-middle-class graduates is left with no options.

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cattleprod (Apr 6, 2012 - 7:35 pm)

Sort of like now?

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mbison (Apr 7, 2012 - 10:16 pm)

I think it's going to take a few more years. Possibly another decade of this. I have yet to meet a non-lawyer who is not shocked when I tell them that it's bad for lawyers out there or even more shocked when I tell them what lawyers make.

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karlmarx (Apr 7, 2012 - 3:46 pm)

Updates:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=170585&start=100

JDU posters are now engaged in a flame war against lemmmings. LOL.

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isthisit (Feb 22, 2017 - 5:24 pm)

TIL I'm in an online gang.

Also the chumps at TLS need to grow thicker skin. It's all downhill from here.

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mtobeinf (Feb 22, 2017 - 5:33 pm)

We are true gladiators. Though some may never heal from their wounds, our warrior spirit lives on. Warriors come out to playyyyyay. And TLS sucks.

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isthisit (Feb 22, 2017 - 7:48 pm)

No doubt. I drank the TLS kool-aid pre-Law and 1L year. Now I'm drinking my bitter sh!t inducing cup of JDU but at least it's honest.

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mtobeinf (Feb 22, 2017 - 8:01 pm)

I keeps it real which is why I love it here. Came out of the shadows. It's crazy reading areyouinsanes story bc I, similarly, had one c that knocked me out of OCI. Ended up missing law review by a spot or two. Not that it really mattered since I got sick anyway. Started over landed in a good spot. It really is one event that changes anything in law. And practicing is even worse than anyone can imagine in law school. But nothing is worse than the unholy hell that is doc review. Compliance grunt work was my hell. And even that was preferable.

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wily (Apr 9, 2012 - 11:46 am)

Actually, you guys probably already read this, but some of the best "JDU"-esque posts were on TLS a year ago. This guy, "areyouinsane", writes the most hilarious and frightening expose of document review/shitlaw around. Just search for his posts in this thread, you won't be disappointed:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157855

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mtobeinf (Feb 22, 2017 - 5:07 pm)

Thank you, Wily.

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dingbat (Feb 22, 2017 - 5:22 pm)

why are you resurrecting a 5 year old thread?

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mtobeinf (Feb 22, 2017 - 5:31 pm)

Chaos. But more so it's really interesting. I was 09' graduate from college. No idea of any of this back then. That OT wily thread led me to this. Not poasting today bc my brain hurts in light of the concussion. Interesting to look back though. Areyou-insane needs to come back. Plus tho old socks to current people I find interesting as the Dome is amorphous. Til the morrow dingbat. Til the morrow.

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oddis500 (Feb 22, 2017 - 8:49 pm)

The more attorneys I come into contact with through work, the more I realize that even the best of schools have complete dumb*** as students. I've met some complete losers (one in my office) with Harvard Law degrees. Graduating from a TLS doesn't save you if you are an idiot with no social skills.

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mtobeinf (Feb 22, 2017 - 8:59 pm)

Couldn't say it better myself. A lot of the best attorneys I know aren't from the top ranked schools. Perhaps, it is because they had to work harder to succeed. Nevertheless, it would be delightfully hilarious to know how many of them are biglaw dropouts by now. They've already hit their peak. Only down hill once one gets das boot from the partner track. Being an attorney is like being in the NFL without the pay, strippers, and blow (well that's not true. see, disbarment thread). Have a short shelf life. It really is a scam. Even those that made it are mostly doing alright all things considered. Low six figures is a good life. But those that have made it have a debt load (of their 1980s or 90s tuition debt) that is laughable compared to the young bucks. Incomparable situation. Like saying I hung a shingle in 1998 after walking 20 miles in the snow to get to work. Such a fckin dirty, dirty game. And justice is a joke as most who practice will ultimately conclude. So what did we sell our souls to the devil for again? Crushing debt or a busted family life, being alone or insufferable because attorneys are god awful due to the nature of the beast, does not seem like a fair trade off.

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attorneyinct (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:29 am)

I know a person that accrued 150k plus of debt for Pace Law School. I don't understand why people willingly go to law school for low tier schools.

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bizzybone1313 (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:41 am)

☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼. A lot of people on JDU did this. Hence, the term JDUnderground.com. Be nice- or you will create enemies here. JDU is full of embittered peeps that fell hook, line and sinker for the law school scam. A lot of them went to ultra crappy law schools because they wanted to wake up everyday and feel important with a status job of "lawyer".

I personally wouldn't and won't attend any law school below the UCLA level of eliteness.

Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of chumps every year attend these crappy law schools at the tune $50K or more a year in tuition. So, there's plenty of chumps willing to gamble $150K+ in loans to become a lawyer.

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mtobeinf (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:42 am)

Bizzy, you didn't even try. That's pot calling kettle black, yet again. Not much room to talk, my smurf friend.

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bizzybone1313 (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:44 am)

I don't have $150K in loans from crappy school. I'm 30. The boat hasn't passed me yet. And considering my undergrad background and work experience, a law degree would actually print me money in my niche field of law I could practice.

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mtobeinf (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:44 am)

You're barely employed. But we ll discuss that in the proper forum.

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bizzybone1313 (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:55 am)

My hourly rate is good. That's all I got to say. When I work 50-60 hours a week, I get paid for ALL my hours. Bizzybone1313 doesn't work free overtime like you guys in legal jobs. As an educated person, why should I not get paid for my overtime when meth head uneducated chumps get paid for every hour of their physical labor?

I will fix this when I get elected to the U.S. Congress. ☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼 It has never made any kind of sense to me in any kind of way. Why do educated people have to work for "free" for anything after 40 hours? It has never made any sense to me. Do any of y'all ever hear any politicians talk about this? No. The answer is no. Because they aren't as smart as BB1313.

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mtobeinf (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:41 am)

Think it's a sticky wicket and depends on one's background. I came up wealthy, but was dead broke by 18. Didn't have any guidance for future in re law school, just was something I always wanted to do. Wasn't aware of scam law or the blogs. Went to prestigious undergrad, which is the vast source of my debt as I had a full boat to law school (though living expenses were necessary), where I had a strong network and everyone assured me it didn't matter. Then the bottom fell out in re the economy and it all went to shyte. I think the rankings are a crock of shyte though. I rarely lost on anything I worked on and being from a lower school means nothing in re one's aptitude to practice. The biglaw work product is far from impressive. I still have to deal with it today in re outside counsel. Work product at times makes me through up my hands and go what the fck? The solo is the best outside counsel we have and the cheapest hands down. It's that fake prestige law chases after. But, it's all a wash at the end of the day. Only few actually succeed in any event. Goal should be six figures and a comfortable life, which is obtainable. Just got to put in the work and have a bounce or two go in your direction.

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bizzybone1313 (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:41 am)

☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼. A lot of people on JDU did this. Hence, the term JDUnderground.com. Be nice- or you will create enemies here. JDU is full of embittered peeps that fell hook, line and sinker for the law school scam. A lot of them went to ultra crappy law schools because they wanted to wake up everyday and feel important with a status job of "lawyer".

I personally wouldn't and won't attend any law school below the UCLA level of eliteness.

Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of chumps every year attend these crappy law schools at the tune $50K or more a year in tuition.

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mtobeinf (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:44 am)

At this rate, Bizzy it matters not. You're stuck where my brothers stuck since you're getting old. Shyte or get off the pot in whatever industry you can land. Further emphasis on realistic. Grow pot in a medical marijuana state or something while you rap. Do something man.

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bizzybone1313 (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:50 am)

I have a job. I'm good. I'm not money hungry like 95 percent of people. My goal has always been to be happy, which to me is to be a rapper or politician long term. I could make 6 figures in the Middle East with my bachelor's degree (I just checked and confirmed this a few days ago by checking the market). So?? Whoop e do. Would I get to change the world passing legislation in the US Congress? No. Would buying a $600K home with that money make ME happy? No.

So I seek to figure out the best way to become a rapper or politician (or both). Those are my little immigrant dreams I wish to make happen whatever it takes. Last night, I was at karoake yet again practicing my flow and delivery.

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mtobeinf (Feb 23, 2017 - 10:51 am)

Good luck man. You do you Scotty P. You do you.

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haltomfool (May 12, 2017 - 7:58 pm)

This reminds me of the tidbit of wisdom that goes like this: "Be careful what you wish for, it might come true". In this case, what one wishes for is a law degree.

Even with owing 150,000 dollars after law school, you've also lost 3 years out of the workforce. Three years of lost income and three years of work experience is lost forever. Then you have to pay off that massive debt. Forget about ever investing money.

It would be better to get a basic bachelor's degree in something useful and start at "zero" rather than "negative". Of course, a degree in engineering isn't going to get you laid, but it will get you a car, a house, a decent income.

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haltomfool (May 12, 2017 - 7:52 pm)

A rapper or politician? Wow. Lost in fantasy world, like 95% of people who want to go to law school and think they are going to be in a "prestigious" occupation. What about acting in Hollywood? Fancy that?

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