Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

WSJ piece today on falling LS enrollment

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles /SB1000142405270230485810 allordpwnsu12/18/13
lulz, Leandro will be getting a divorce sooner or later. t3success12/18/13
Guys. I just checked his Twitter handle, https://twitter.c cheesecakes77702/26/18
Sadly I'm not sure he ever passed the bar, he is still a "La shouldalearnedmath03/01/18
People are still deluded. So their chances go from 50% to 60 kmc66612/18/13
I think I'm going to say a prayer for this kid. https://t 123fakestreet12/18/13
I recall from interviewing at Dewey (pre merger) that they h allordpwnsu12/18/13
Sadly, those odds (biglaw, that is) at last check are approx ichininosan12/18/13
There are about 5 biglaw firms in the country that handle sp lolskewl12/18/13
It might. You never know. The kid might have a really outgoi allordpwnsu12/18/13
The network is the key, but something tells me most of the p lolskewl12/18/13
^^ this. Entertainment/Sports law jobs flat out don't ex eddiemunster12/19/13
Interestingly enough I went to law school with the intention subprimejd12/20/13
People still go to small lawyers for wills in the age of leg eddiemunster12/20/13
There are millions of Americans that don't speak good Englis subprimejd12/22/13
No empathy for this idiot. The information is out there and spaghetti12/20/13
Very sad that this clown is married. I see divorce in his fu fmllawyer12/18/13
I don't think the young man quoted is a clown, he is just a allordpwnsu12/18/13
Fairly remote chance to get biglaw out of Charlotte? Be seri t3success12/18/13
I'm sure there's a chance he'll get to represent Disney on a phillydoucherocket12/18/13
Any time I hear the phrase "sports law" I just laugh. It is bostonlawyer.212/18/13
What Leandro doesn't understand is the difference between ge jd199712/18/13
Yep. Spot on. Even if the labor market improves due to less allordpwnsu12/18/13
This "get the law school applicants to decrease so there's l stevelaw12/19/13
You mean that five years of never working in law will never lawnotforme12/19/13
Yeah. Although it's similar for most professions. When p gribble12/19/13
People like this guy seem to think that all the unemployed a brokelawyer12/20/13
He's just finishing his first semester at for-profit Charlot spaghetti12/21/13
How much you want to bet he stays anyway. eddiemunster12/21/13
Anyone who would even consider such a ludicrous sham probabl spaghetti12/21/13
What amazes me is how many law school students and prospecti kw6713a12/23/13
Scott Boras went to McGeorge Law School and now dominates. L allordpwnsu12/23/13
So you would have all these kids continue onward through law kw6713a12/23/13
Absolutely. I've tried to dissuade the snowflakes on TLS. I allordpwnsu12/23/13
Fair enough. I do think there's a huge myth as to "sports l kw6713a12/23/13
Once you get past a certain rank of schools, any law save fo allordpwnsu12/23/13
Add collections and consumer bankruptcy to your list, but tr inindiana12/23/13
Winter only officially started two days ago. Just 3 more mon allordpwnsu12/23/13
Not really true. The large law firms in my state hire the to fettywap02/27/18
"Reacting to the drop in demand for new attorneys, law schoo magellan12/23/13
"When people talk about "paying your dues" it means a good e aknas02/27/18
This sports & entertainment law BS got me thinking about a s hankhill02/27/18
The only solution to this problem is to cut enrollment at ev caj11102/27/18
The only moral solution is to cut the Federal Funds and let wearyattorney02/27/18

allordpwnsu (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:04 am)

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304858104579264730376317914

Money passage:

Leandro Quatel, a first-year student at Charlotte School of Law in North Carolina, hopes the shrinking pool of students will improve his prospects in the job market after graduation.

"I'm one of those students who is counting on a decline of my competition," Mr. Quatel, 26, said in an email. "I keep telling my wife that the more people drop out of law school or decide not to enroll or even apply, the better it could be for me in the long run."

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t3success (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:20 am)

lulz, Leandro will be getting a divorce sooner or later.

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cheesecakes777 (Feb 26, 2018 - 10:18 pm)

Guys. I just checked his Twitter handle,
https://twitter.com/leandroquatel, and 4 years later...still happily married! Lol. But no longer interested in sports and entertainment law.

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shouldalearnedmath (Mar 1, 2018 - 9:25 am)

Sadly I'm not sure he ever passed the bar, he is still a "Law Clerk." At least he appears to still have work.

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kmc666 (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:19 am)

People are still deluded. So their chances go from 50% to 60% and they think it is still a good deal?

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123fakestreet (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:24 am)

I think I'm going to say a prayer for this kid.

https://twitter.com/leandroquatel

"Background in management. Current a 1L at Charlotte School of Law. Interested in Sports & Ent. Law. Utah Utes Alumni. Happily married. Dream job: ESPN."

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allordpwnsu (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:31 am)

I recall from interviewing at Dewey (pre merger) that they had folks in their corporate and IP groups who did all sorts of deal work for the Disney family of companies. I assume that following the dissolution of Dewey Lebouf that the work for Disney migrated to another biglaw shop. I suspect that in order to get a job at ESPN requires time in the trenches in biglaw so that one can walk in and have some semblance of understanding the complicated licensing deals they enter into. There is a chance they hire noobs, but it seems like it would be few and far between. Maybe they hire noobs for litigation matters. Hopefully this kid can beat the odds.

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ichininosan (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:59 am)

Sadly, those odds (biglaw, that is) at last check are approximately 1.3%. And that was for the Charlotte students that started law school in 2009, back when Charlotte students had a median LSAT of 151 and GPA of 3.11. Now, the median Charlotte student is of the 144 / sub 3.0 variety. If I'm biglaw, I am not going to start hiring from this school.

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lolskewl (Dec 18, 2013 - 11:18 am)

There are about 5 biglaw firms in the country that handle sports law (Proskauer is the typical one), and it's just the same biglaw work for league/team clients. ESPN's work would be handled by any well known media+entertainment practice group at a firm in NYC.

This kid thinks he's going to be Jerry Maguire. Not happening.

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allordpwnsu (Dec 18, 2013 - 11:21 am)

It might. You never know. The kid might have a really outgoing personality, a solid network and be a great salesman. Law is a sales business first and foremost.

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lolskewl (Dec 18, 2013 - 12:35 pm)

The network is the key, but something tells me most of the people applying to sports law programs aren't ex-D1 college athletes with a lot of connections to up and coming pros.

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eddiemunster (Dec 19, 2013 - 2:09 pm)

^^ this.

Entertainment/Sports law jobs flat out don't exist. It's yet another marketing technique to get butts in seats at the schools.

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subprimejd (Dec 20, 2013 - 5:56 pm)

Interestingly enough I went to law school with the intention of doing small law. So far it's exactly what I'm doing.
Drafting simple living trusts, wills, incorporating. Personal injury cases, family and child support stuff.
Slowly getting into labor issues.

I never had any dreams or desire to get into biglaw or do some exclusive shit.

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eddiemunster (Dec 20, 2013 - 5:58 pm)

People still go to small lawyers for wills in the age of legalzoom?

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subprimejd (Dec 22, 2013 - 9:51 pm)

There are millions of Americans that don't speak good English and are not Internet savvy

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spaghetti (Dec 20, 2013 - 9:30 pm)

No empathy for this idiot. The information is out there and readily available. Less than 5 minutes on Google and you can very, very easily learn that going to for-profit Charlotte is a moronic decision.

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fmllawyer (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:33 am)

Very sad that this clown is married. I see divorce in his future.

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allordpwnsu (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:37 am)

I don't think the young man quoted is a clown, he is just a victim of two society wide scams that have told him to follow his dreams and that if he gets moar education, he can accomplish anything. Surely some folks from his 40k-ish deep law school class will represent ESPN and may even wind up working there as attorneys, but the odds that it is someone out of Charlotte are fairly remote.

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t3success (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:40 am)

Fairly remote chance to get biglaw out of Charlotte? Be serious.

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phillydoucherocket (Dec 18, 2013 - 10:52 am)

I'm sure there's a chance he'll get to represent Disney on a large scale litigation in Charlotte.

At DiscoverReady...

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bostonlawyer.2 (Dec 18, 2013 - 11:10 am)

Any time I hear the phrase "sports law" I just laugh. It is complete delusion.....he might as well say he wants to be a "sports agent to LeBron."

A friend of mine thought he was going to be a "sports lawyer" out of NESL...lol.

Attorneys who practice "sports and entertainmnet law" are the elite of the elite. There are very few of them in the country.

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jd1997 (Dec 18, 2013 - 11:47 am)

What Leandro doesn't understand is the difference between getting a job and getting a good job. A reduced number of law grads each year will certainly improve his chances of getting a low paying entry level attorney position at a sweatshop. But even a 50% reduction in law graduates is not going to improve the career prospects for many.

Without law firm connections or a good plan to go out in his own, Leandro's career prospects working for someone else as an attorney are pretty grim.

The best advice career advice for Leandro and others like him is realize as soon as possible that bad deals don't become better over time.

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allordpwnsu (Dec 18, 2013 - 11:54 am)

Yep. Spot on. Even if the labor market improves due to less supply, there is still adequate supply from the T14 and top ranked kids in the T50 or even lower ranked feeder schools that may place a few per year into local biglaw (e.g., Kent, DePaul, Brooklyn, etc.) to fill the most sought after jobs. At best, a diminution in supply means that Scott Bullock's former employer only gets 300 resumes in a day rather than 400.

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stevelaw (Dec 19, 2013 - 7:59 pm)

This "get the law school applicants to decrease so there's less competition for law grads" is nonsense, propagated by the pro-law school types.

Listen, if you aren't hired to a law job within one year after your graduation, you will forever be branded a loser and be forever snubbed by legal employers. It doesn't matter how low the competition rates get.

So the idea that all of these unemployed law grads, unemployed in the legal profession for years, will suddenly have law jobs thrown at them due to declining law school applications is crap.

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lawnotforme (Dec 19, 2013 - 8:13 pm)

You mean that five years of never working in law will never get me to being a lawyer? I am shocked man! Shocked!

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gribble (Dec 19, 2013 - 10:49 pm)

Yeah. Although it's similar for most professions.

When people talk about "paying your dues" it means a good entry-level job and working your way up from that. Not volunteering or doing odd jobs and actually hustling.

People don't understand that and just always blame themselves while holding out hope. Who is going to hire a bartender to be a lawyer? If you ever travel to foreign countries the cabbies all are doctors and lawyers, it's just not worth anything where there is no demand and where the newer entrants are cut off from the system.

Same in the US now. There are lots of great jobs, but you'll need to be born into the right connections or get super lucky to get one. The people that are doing well are part of the same class, regardless of profession.

Life is tough and the losers have always been brushed under the rug. Nobody wants to admit they're part of the loser group, but really there's only one winner, the loser gets to keep their job, and everyone else goes home.

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brokelawyer (Dec 20, 2013 - 11:04 am)

People like this guy seem to think that all the unemployed and under-employed lawyers out there are just going to stand aside once the job market improves so he can interview at Cravath. Also, he is ignoring the structural change in the legal profession. People don't need lawyers like they used to. The cyclical Kensyian model of unemployment simply does not apply to this profession.

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spaghetti (Dec 21, 2013 - 10:43 am)

He's just finishing his first semester at for-profit Charlotte so he still has time to avoid making the life-ruining decision to continue for another second at that scam school.

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eddiemunster (Dec 21, 2013 - 2:29 pm)

How much you want to bet he stays anyway.

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spaghetti (Dec 21, 2013 - 7:17 pm)

Anyone who would even consider such a ludicrous sham probably can't think very critically, so I'd be comfortable betting $ that he stays, unless he does horribly his 1L year.

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kw6713a (Dec 23, 2013 - 12:24 pm)

What amazes me is how many law school students and prospectives say they want to do sports law. I don't know where this concept comes from. It's like UFO's or chupacabra. There's no hard evidence to support its existence, but for some reason thousands of people randomly start believing in it at the same time.

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allordpwnsu (Dec 23, 2013 - 12:38 pm)

Scott Boras went to McGeorge Law School and now dominates. Leigh Steinberg also has a JD from Boalt. What other hard evidence do you need?

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kw6713a (Dec 23, 2013 - 12:46 pm)

So you would have all these kids continue onward through law school? It seems right to you?

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allordpwnsu (Dec 23, 2013 - 12:53 pm)

Absolutely. I've tried to dissuade the snowflakes on TLS. I contribute here. If they want to willfully ignore advice of their elders, fine with me.

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kw6713a (Dec 23, 2013 - 12:57 pm)

Fair enough. I do think there's a huge myth as to "sports law." Of course it does exist but obviously not to the degree these kids think it does, or in the form they think it does. No idea where it comes from; maybe they mold their view of the world to fit their view of themselves.

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allordpwnsu (Dec 23, 2013 - 1:15 pm)

Once you get past a certain rank of schools, any law save for criminal, family law or ID/PI gets to be a myth for the majority of graduating students. That doesn't stop the kiddos from going. Ain't my job to save the world.

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inindiana (Dec 23, 2013 - 1:27 pm)

Add collections and consumer bankruptcy to your list, but true in all other respects.

I was in your fair city yesterday, in the Daley Center Plaza. Fun time, but when all the decorations are gone next month, it must seem somewhat gray and downright nasty. Probably best to stay in the office for hours on end if for no other reason than to avoid going outdoors.

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allordpwnsu (Dec 23, 2013 - 1:30 pm)

Winter only officially started two days ago. Just 3 more months and it will break 35 again regularly!

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fettywap (Feb 27, 2018 - 11:41 am)

Not really true. The large law firms in my state hire the top graduates from both schools in the area. But that's only a hand full of students getting those jobs. The rest have to hustle in personal injury, divorce, or criminal.

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magellan (Dec 23, 2013 - 1:09 pm)

"Reacting to the drop in demand for new attorneys, law schools have been retooling their course offerings to try and better prepare new graduates to find legal jobs.

Many schools now emphasize hands-on training through clinics and so-called externship work experiences, particularly in the third year, which was once largely devoted to specialized electives with little practical application."

FFSake, that's not the problem. Hell, turn LS back to the apprentice program it was. Guess what: same result! Wonderful, we'll soon have thousands of able, well-equipped/versed yet still UNEMPLOYED lawyers. It's jobs(!) and wittingly concealing the lack thereof, stupid.




"T25," 4 touchdowns, one game.

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aknas (Feb 27, 2018 - 8:35 am)

"When people talk about "paying your dues" it means a good entry-level job and working your way up from that. Not volunteering or doing odd jobs and actually hustling.

People don't understand that and just always blame themselves while holding out hope. Who is going to hire a bartender to be a lawyer? If you ever travel to foreign countries the cabbies all are doctors and lawyers, it's just not worth anything where there is no demand and where the newer entrants are cut off from the system.

Same in the US now. There are lots of great jobs, but you'll need to be born into the right connections or get super lucky to get one.


....

Exactly.

Merits repeating.

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hankhill (Feb 27, 2018 - 11:26 am)

This sports & entertainment law BS got me thinking about a situation that I had come up about a year ago. I attended a CLE luncheon and ended up at a table with an older guy who was a very successful partner-level attorney. Nice guy. We chatted about what we did and he explained that he did a lot of work for financial institutions, especially ERISA and fiduciary services work.

He asked me where I went to school and I said William Mitchell in Minnesota. He surprisingly informed me that his son was a current 1L at Mitchell Hamline; what a small world, blah blah. He then told me that his son was really interested in sports and entertainment law, and his goal was to get a job in sports. I kept a straight face and asked "oh really?" He said, "yeah, do they have a pretty good placement office there?"

I was just fukcing astonished at this guy's complete lack of awareness. As if the Timberwolves will be looking for an entry-level Mitchell Hamline grad. And that he thought the school had a placement office. Completely clueless. But the most odd thing is that this guy should know that jobs are scarce, he's an attorney himself. But I think a lot of older guys, especially those not involved in hiring for their firm, just aren't aware how bad it is. Idk.

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caj111 (Feb 27, 2018 - 12:02 pm)

The only solution to this problem is to cut enrollment at every law school and shut down a number of other schools as well. A number of crappy and somewhat less crappy schools have closed down in recent years, but it's not enough and other new (and undoubtedly will be crappy) law schools have been proposed.

It's a fact - if you want to go to med or dental school but don't have the right grades and/or MCAT scores, you aren't going. Law school should be the same way, but it isn't. No matter how rotten your grades and LSAT scores are, there is a school that will be happy to take your money.

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wearyattorney (Feb 27, 2018 - 1:22 pm)

The only moral solution is to cut the Federal Funds and let the market take care of the rest. Lawyers shouldn’t be given special protections, but the present state of affairs is insanse. The law schools get a risk-free blank check from the government so anyone and everyone, irrespective of ability, can attend.

If there are really 40,000 people a year who want to be lawyers, and they can find someone to give them the money to go, there shouldn’t be a restriction, but as stated, this is insane.

The argument would be that 1/10000 minority applicants that wind up succeeding but for the loans justifies the 30000 plus failures a year. If we follow that logic to conclusion, the government should give out nondischargeable loans for people to open businesses because but for such a program there is a minority out there that wouldn’t make it. I guarantee if we do a program like this, some underprivileged person somewhere will benefit, but there will be a vast number of indentured servants created in the process.

The con of law schools (and colleges) us convincing the public that they are somehow socially conscious and civic minded institutions, when in reality, they are businesses that don’t care about their customers, like any other business. The government enables them, that’s the difference...

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