Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Escaping debt collections law.

Anyone done it? Where did you go? I have 3.5 years in this a snowday7507/12/18
state clerkship? blackholelaw07/12/18
If you are being conflicted out, you need to expand your hor whipster07/12/18
Not me personally, but I'd look for high volume PI plaintiff jd4hire07/12/18
Not always. I left trusts and estates for litigation and cou junkwired07/12/18
Litigation is exciting. It is more like a sport. You have jeffm07/12/18
For sure. I left my first job and went to a great place. S jd4hire07/12/18
How did you transition onto litigation? I do a ton of cases snowday7507/12/18
I applied for and was accepted as a Superior Court clerk. Wh junkwired07/12/18
Thanks. snowday7507/12/18
From another perspective, litigation can be easy to get into jeffm07/12/18
I'm sorry to say this, but collections - although necessary orgdonor07/12/18
That is why in my OP I asked for advice leaving this practic snowday7507/12/18
Total troll post. You have experience doing sh##law and want dandydan07/12/18
Not a troll post. I need advice from people who have been he snowday7507/12/18
You are a troll and have no clue what you're talking about. dandydan07/12/18
What do you do now? At least try to provide a productive snowday7507/12/18
You want to move on. You are doing collections. What have yo dandydan07/16/18
Beyond garbage collections: only four Depositions and novice snowday7507/16/18
@Snowday75 - I'm in-house and happy for the most part, but o hairypalms07/12/18
Everyone hates you: clients, customers, family, friends, law snowday7507/12/18
That sucks. Keep your head down, apply to any job you are r jd4hire07/12/18
Others said it well but the hearings are not valuable experi snowday7507/12/18
"You don’t get paid until you win so you have no incentive jeffm07/12/18
I turned down a debt collection job for most of the reasons. kretan18207/12/18
Haha. I have been at three different firms now. That reminds snowday7507/12/18
I work in high volume pi. this post resonated w me. I think physicssezno07/12/18
If you have enough cash, the best way to get out is to start dingbat07/13/18
Solo w a bunch of cash ain’t for the faint of heart. physicssezno07/13/18
I have two good friends/classmates who started in consumer c 2breedbares07/13/18
Snow day - you're right my post sucked. I think you should b orgdonor07/13/18
I escaped collections law. Collections is seen as disreputab acerimmer07/13/18
I appreciate the post. This is what I need to hear: unconven snowday7507/13/18
They won't validate an interviewee's parking? Cheap bastadg wutwutwut07/13/18
There is a post on zip recruiter claiming $150,000 for under snowday7507/13/18
I think SF and Allstate are going to start underwriters clos wutwutwut07/13/18
From the BLS: Insurance underwriters use computer software jeffm07/13/18
I am willing to take risks. The nonstop death threats, value snowday7507/13/18
Churning and burning *is* success in the debt collections ma jeffm07/13/18
Its great for my boss that my reputation will soon be crap i snowday7507/13/18
"Can you call that an "escape?" It sounds pretty soul-crushi wutwutwut07/13/18
Yeah, you're right about me in not wanting to see people giv jeffm07/13/18
Meeting up with a family member who is a regional sales rep snowday7507/14/18
Are you going to be able to do sales? Earnest question. You thirdtierlaw07/14/18
Won’t know if I do not try. Unsure of your area, but where snowday7507/14/18
I know 2 sisters who are in device sales for BigPharma. Bot jeffm07/14/18
I liked pitching collections clients at my first firm. The s snowday7507/14/18
I have been doing collections work for almost 5 years. Durin mcacollector07/17/18
I Am OP. Ultimately made the switch to representing injury p billcarson10/16/18
Snowy, your tale of woe sounds much like the high volume PI mnjd07/17/18
Hey man yeah Twin Cities job but I live north off 35. I am g snowday7507/17/18
Thanks. I'll take a look. Off to another monotonous Plaintif mnjd07/17/18
Get lunch at The Exchange in NB off the CR E2 exit of 35w. I snowday7507/17/18
I started a Litigation Associate position nearly three weeks cabe200009/06/18
Just say what you said above. Thank them and wish them well jeffm09/06/18
I've been going back and forth about accepting an offer with lawyer210/15/18
Take the job, pay down debt, and at about 10 months experien daveramsey10/15/18

snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 9:41 am)

Anyone done it? Where did you go? I have 3.5 years in this area and no traction interviewing. My network consists of solos who cannot offer jobs or can offer jobs but where I’d be conflicted out too often to be useful.

I am willing to restart in a different area, but I have no luck so far in doing so.


Thanks.

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blackholelaw (Jul 12, 2018 - 10:58 am)

state clerkship?

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whipster (Jul 12, 2018 - 11:49 am)

If you are being conflicted out, you need to expand your horizons as far as where to live. Play up your litigation and motion practice skills, and you should land something pretty quickly.

A good niche area in which there is very little competition is municipal law. Look for some firms that specialize in that area and offer to sweep the floors for a while to get your foot in the door.

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jd4hire (Jul 12, 2018 - 11:10 am)

Not me personally, but I'd look for high volume PI plaintiff's work or ID work.

I'd also keep an eye out for any state or local positions.

Grass is always greener can be a killer. I saw a buddy last night who was still talking about how he regrets leaving his first job doing SSDI work. He's moved two or three times since then and has disliked each new job more than the last...maybe that's just the law, though.

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junkwired (Jul 12, 2018 - 11:12 am)

Not always. I left trusts and estates for litigation and could not be happier.

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jeffm (Jul 12, 2018 - 11:33 am)

Litigation is exciting. It is more like a sport. You have a contest and a winner. Your skills are in the spotlight. That's what I always liked about it. Even so, you might see the day when the thrill of the challenge starts turning into the agony of the challenge.

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jd4hire (Jul 12, 2018 - 11:39 am)

For sure. I left my first job and went to a great place. Stayed there four years and left. Absolutely hated next job and only stayed 5 months. Left there for the best place of employment I have ever had. Left there due to being personally contacted for position with really good long term potential to make some real cash money. While I like where I am and find the work challenging/ stimulating, I really miss my old work environment and colleagues.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 11:50 am)

How did you transition onto litigation? I do a ton of cases but they aren’t legitimate litigation matters. Its uncontested or the opponent’s tactics are to delay judgment rather than a contest over the facts or law.

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junkwired (Jul 12, 2018 - 12:01 pm)

I applied for and was accepted as a Superior Court clerk. When my clerkship was nearing its end I applied to mid-sized and large litigation firms and emphasized how the skills I gained as a clerk would make me a good associate (also did a lot of networking, which helped). I received 2 offers and accepted the firm (approx 70 attorneys) that seemed more promising and would allow me to quickly gain experience in all aspect of litigation up to trial.

Although I tried to apply to firms while I was a T&E associate, my lack of any litigation experience was holding me back. I then concluded that the clerkship would be the only way to successfully transition. Plus, clerkships are pretty awesome.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 12:02 pm)

Thanks.

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jeffm (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:06 pm)

From another perspective, litigation can be easy to get into. There are so many lawyers out there who don't want to litigate. Willingness to litigate has to be the biggest factor to opening the door. There are plenty of older (and even younger) "settling" attorneys who don't want to spend time doing the tedium of litigation - e.g., discovery, motion practice and trial preparation. These attorneys often will bring on younger associates/interns, etc. to do this work. It might not pay well as a new associate/intern in some cases, but in pretty much all cases, the experience you get translates into almost any kind of litigation. From there, you can acquire the skills to move up or out.

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orgdonor (Jul 12, 2018 - 1:01 pm)

I'm sorry to say this, but collections - although necessary - is widely considered disreputable by many lawyers.

Defaulting consumer debtors in small claims to attach their SSI is an unappealing proposition. I think you should consider acknowledging that.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 1:08 pm)

That is why in my OP I asked for advice leaving this practice area. Please read the OP of a topic before you comment here again.

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dandydan (Jul 12, 2018 - 1:12 pm)

Total troll post. You have experience doing sh##law and want to do something else? Sure, Skadden is chasing you. Time to figure out something else.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 1:14 pm)

Not a troll post. I need advice from people who have been here. You haven’t. You belittle everyone on this website. Stop harassing me immediately. Final warning.

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dandydan (Jul 12, 2018 - 5:01 pm)

You are a troll and have no clue what you're talking about. I did doc review for a bit. I know what it's like to be abused for low-paying work around people who totally gave up. But thanks for your final warning.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 5:18 pm)

What do you do now?

At least try to provide a productive response to this question. I am actively applying to Jobs and interviewing weekly.

I am not sitting in the lounge of Special Counsel with the Code Crew.

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dandydan (Jul 16, 2018 - 10:26 am)

You want to move on. You are doing collections. What have you done to show others that you have or may have skills? Just sending in your resume with collections experience is not enough. If you have been doing collections, people see you as a collections lawyer. Have you demonstrated knowledge or skill in another area so that another employer would want to bring you on? There are ways to do this, I just don't see that you've done anything. If I was looking to bring on someone doing another area of law, I would want to see a demonstrated skill, not just someone unhappy in creepy collections law.

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snowday75 (Jul 16, 2018 - 10:36 am)

Beyond garbage collections: only four Depositions and novice level federal pretrial litigation, in MN district court (3 12b6, 2 12c motions)

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hairypalms (Jul 12, 2018 - 1:27 pm)

@Snowday75 - I'm in-house and happy for the most part, but often contemplate opening up a solo practice when I start winding down my career, perhaps in 5-10 years. All the corporate BS and justifying your existence takes its toll after a while. In any event, I have considered collections as a possible practice area (B2B, no consumer) and was curious what you like/dislike about it, and whether you feel that it could be a good practice area for someone starting a solo shop. Also, how do attorneys bill for collections? I was under the impression that lawyers charge 20%+ of the amount collected. I understand collections is viewed by many as being a low-rate practice area, but I could care less. Thanks!

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 1:39 pm)

Everyone hates you: clients, customers, family, friends, law school classmates.


B2B is OK if its good paper. Too much of it is chasing monopoly money owed by defunct LLCs.

Clients are vermin. They effectively hire salesmen to get you to take every big file. They claim every single file is easily collectible. It rarely is.

You don’t get paid until you win so you have no incentive to litigate anything. Ergo, you are a joke as a human being and as a lawyer to future employers and friends/family. This isn’t PI where you have a carrier. Your greatest struggle is post-Judgment.

FDCPA haunts your every waking moment. But if B2B, nah.


Debtors know where I live. Debtors have made credible threats of death.

This isn’t exaggeration. I am not trolling. You will never learn to be a real lawyer. You will make a mediocre living that will be JUST enough to trap you from starting over at $25,000 (starting lawyer pay here).

Do not enter this practice area. I should have gone on unemployment after law school instead of entering this practice area. I am worse than a heroin addict to society.

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jd4hire (Jul 12, 2018 - 2:15 pm)

That sucks. Keep your head down, apply to any job you are remotely qualified for, network as best you can.

Maybe try and work with your current firm and see if they'll allow you to take on some criminal, family law, or PI. That way you could advise potential employers of your diverse skill set.

I'm kind of surprised that the experience with pleadings and court appearances doesn't open some doors.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 2:18 pm)

Others said it well but the hearings are not valuable experience.

Yes you are before real state court judges. But you have no complex factual or legal issues. The most nuanced cases I handle are subrogation—which is a Joke for ID lawyers.

The only value I have is in federal court. But only under FDCPA and TCPA defense, which the joke practice areas in the Federal Bar.

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jeffm (Jul 12, 2018 - 3:10 pm)

"You don’t get paid until you win so you have no incentive to litigate anything."

Consider learning an incentive. You at least have issues that can be litigated. Don't be put off by people wondering why you'd litigate a chumpy collection matter. If you have a win, you have a win. Litigate it and win it. Go through depositions, motions for summary judgment, motions to compel, etc. Get your feet wet. It might not seem economical to anyone looking from the outside, but so what? You have to test your abilities and learn what works and doesn't work.

Edit: Just saw your post above about how non-complex the cases are. I imagine this is true with regard to consumer cases, but B2B cases should provide some issues, such as product defects, breach of warranty, misrepresentation, etc.

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kretan182 (Jul 12, 2018 - 4:52 pm)

I turned down a debt collection job for most of the reasons. The threats you get from debtors sounds very real.

The firm was offering me 48k, a company care that was probably was some 2002 Toyota Corolla with 120,000 miles, health insurance in which the firm only covered 60% of the premiums, and a 90 day probation period in which you can be fired for any reason at all (which is pretty standard I guess for most jobs). The building where the firm was located smelled like vomit/whiskey and did not have working air conditioning in the interview room.

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snowday75 (Jul 12, 2018 - 5:27 pm)

Haha. I have been at three different firms now. That reminds me of my first. That place made $750,000 a MONTH and the money always “disappeared” somewhere. IRS wet dream there. I ran From that to a downright scummy firm representing local lenders, to now being in “secured transactions”, “consumer financial litigation defense,” and “adversary bankruptcy.” It is all garbage.

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physicssezno (Jul 12, 2018 - 9:32 pm)

I work in high volume pi. this post resonated w me. I think litigation s ucks. I think the people are often the problem, insurers are the most cynical force on earth and should not exist (i believe in making a Social safety net, not enriching the super rich), my clients are often a hassle, and the doctors involved scare me to the core—whether they’re doing surgery or testifying a Client who’s obviously injured is totally fine.

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dingbat (Jul 13, 2018 - 9:10 am)

If you have enough cash, the best way to get out is to start your own firm and invest heavily in advertising.

How much you need socked away really depends on what you're trying to accomplish next. Something with mostly up-front fees you can probably manage with as little as $25k, whereas anything involving a heavy tail (contingency) you'll need a whole lot more.

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physicssezno (Jul 13, 2018 - 11:48 am)

Solo w a bunch of cash ain’t for the faint of heart.

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2breedbares (Jul 13, 2018 - 12:54 pm)

I have two good friends/classmates who started in consumer collections back in 2010/2011 during the recession. We all make above 100k now.

Basically, you look for any litigation shop and play up your trial experience. Even though they are 90% bench trials, not too many young lawyers have experience putting evidence in front of a judge. Another friend of mine transitioned from collections to plaintiff's PI, then defense. Basically, your next job doesn't have to be glamorous law, but something to wash off the stench of the collections firm, and to show you can do more complex work.

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orgdonor (Jul 13, 2018 - 12:56 pm)

Snow day - you're right my post sucked. I think you should be thinking two - not one - moves ahead. One way to do that is to brand yourself as a "litigator," which I think is doable by transitioning to another heavy need practice area: divorce.

Bigger divorce firms are always looking for people to cover in family court. It's a nightmare of its own kind. But the goal should be to wind up in a small general practice, where you can help out the firm in a variety of areas - all while learning more. Family law firms need to do collections work for their own hook often enough, and you could add value to a big enough shop.

Another point: think clearly about what you truly want to do. If you have a goal - you can aim at it. Moreover, other people like helping others achieve a goal. They don't, however, want to be around others whose lives suck. Don't get your stink on me, etc.

More's the point - let's say you passionately wanted to do real estate transactions - I'm more willing to hire you in my real estate law firm, because I have confidence you'll keep up with developments in the law, and work
to build out my book, and diligently review the documents. That is to say - wanting affirmatively to do a certain thing is attractive. Wanting not to do something isn't attractive.

So, maybe take a bath, and just don't get out of the tub until you've got a solid goal. You might find that coming up with a goal is the hardest part.

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acerimmer (Jul 13, 2018 - 2:12 pm)

I escaped collections law. Collections is seen as disreputable and low-skill by most lawyers. And, the pay is dreadful. I made 32k. So, with a stain on your resume and no real transferrable skills, getting out of collections isn't that easy, and I actually left the law completely to escape it.

I left for construction and manufacturing jobs. The pay was modest, but the Overtime pumped my income up to 40k, and the benefits in the blue-collar world are fantastic compared to the bottom rung of the legal profession. That might not be what you want to hear, though.

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snowday75 (Jul 13, 2018 - 2:17 pm)

I appreciate the post. This is what I need to hear: unconventional paths that led to happier lives.

I can apply to these law firms into eternity. They will keep rejecting me after I use half a day’s PTO and $15-20 parking for their interviews.

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wutwutwut (Jul 13, 2018 - 2:23 pm)

They won't validate an interviewee's parking? Cheap bastadges.

Just a thought, I was talking to a guy who struck out pretty much everywhere with his none-too-useful UG who eventually got a job as an underwriter for a big insurance company (Allstate, State Farm, Chubb type company). He claimed for both underwriting and claims adjuster positions, they don't care what your degree is, just that you have a degree. Any of those guys (larger insurers) have staff offices in your area?

May still run into scarlet JD problems, though, but there's only one way to find out.

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snowday75 (Jul 13, 2018 - 2:47 pm)

There is a post on zip recruiter claiming $150,000 for underwriting, but all of those “make six figs, its ez bro” posts give me pause.

I am looking closer at that. Even if its closer to $50,000 that is fine.

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wutwutwut (Jul 13, 2018 - 3:00 pm)

I think SF and Allstate are going to start underwriters closer to 40, but they move up fairly quickly once trained, and a quick look on glassdoor says regular underwriters top out below 90. So no where near 150. Same surveys said claims adjusting (as an employee) was somewhat higher, but not much, and I got some hints googling that experienced adjusters who went independent after a few years could make more.

This guy was saying though that underwriting is so female-heavy as a profession that any male who's smart and professional is looked at as potential manager material, and that's what he was hoping for in a few years. Kind of a backwards diversity problem vs. the usual where a company's trying to promote more females to manager to balance things out.

He also said the medical benes were good and they actually have a freakin' pension.

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jeffm (Jul 13, 2018 - 4:03 pm)

From the BLS: Insurance underwriters use computer software programs to determine whether an applicant should be approved. Insurance underwriters decide whether to provide insurance, and under what terms. They evaluate insurance applications and determine coverage amounts and premiums.

Can you call that an "escape?" It sounds pretty soul-crushing, unless you just love to count beans while under pressures of some kind - be they sales quotas, or whatever.

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snowday75 (Jul 13, 2018 - 4:11 pm)

I am willing to take risks. The nonstop death threats, valueless hearings where every opponent no-shows or appears in a near-drunken rage, and 30-40 callbacks a day. Its been a long 3.5 years.

The rare occasion I get to handle our consumer litigation defense matters is so woefully inadequate that I very much worry about an impending 12(c) we are handling for a client in Iowa.

The firm simply isn’t designed for success. Its designed for churning and burning.

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jeffm (Jul 13, 2018 - 4:40 pm)

Churning and burning *is* success in the debt collections market. This isn't meant to be rocket science. You can't give too much of a custom treatment to different files. You take the routine, quick and easy files, and that's where the money is. Toss the hard stuff in the scrap pile.

Sure, you put up with low-lives as opposing parties, but hey, if you can emotionally stomach it, there's money to be made. That's why they hired you.

I can see why the sheer monotony would drag you down, but trading tedium for monotony will just make you feel that much more hopeless. If you are going to step out, step up.

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snowday75 (Jul 13, 2018 - 5:02 pm)

Its great for my boss that my reputation will soon be crap in federal court. You are right. Its cheaper than him hiring a real defense attorney. He saves $9,000 and maybe we win, I guess.


I don’t much care about making him money. I am focusing on applications, applications, applications.

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wutwutwut (Jul 13, 2018 - 4:47 pm)

"Can you call that an "escape?" It sounds pretty soul-crushing, unless you just love to count beans while under pressures of some kind - be they sales quotas, or whatever."


Well, it'd be a solid 8-4 job with good benes for the family, and no death threats.

Also, I don't know how much pressure there is. The guy I spoke with didn't mention any particular pressure and seemed to be happy with the gig. I do know they (underwriters) do not do any selling; that's at the independent agents' level.

I think you just hate to see anyone strike out at / give up on law. And I get that. Being a lawyer has been really really good to me. But man, snowday's been posting in misery here for years. Seems like a complete change of pace might be the right prescription.

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jeffm (Jul 13, 2018 - 5:07 pm)

Yeah, you're right about me in not wanting to see people give up. It certainly might be good to hop jobs for a change, though. I concede that. However, I still maintain even a modest solo can do reasonably well while having to barely work. We are talking about the bottom rung here. What is that? 1 billable hour per day? Probably even less than that.

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snowday75 (Jul 14, 2018 - 4:29 pm)

Meeting up with a family member who is a regional sales rep for a medical devices co.

Will let you all know if this is achievable or worthwhile for JDs with bad-law experience.

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thirdtierlaw (Jul 14, 2018 - 5:13 pm)

Are you going to be able to do sales? Earnest question. You don't like court due to your anxiety, are you going to be comfortable cold-calling doctors or "just stopping by because you were in the area and wanted to see if the doctor is in," type situations?

I had a buddy who started in furniture sales and then was able to get a job as a medical device rep. The guy has a small region and was making decent money. He liked the job a lot, but he was also fearless about cold approaching people and being told "no" repeatedly.

I don't see why the JD would hurt you, if you get an interview it's really easy to spin your courtroom time as a demonstration of sales skills.

The truth is your current position would make you perfect for a job like this, the interview should be a cinch. The question is would you be happy?

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snowday75 (Jul 14, 2018 - 5:28 pm)

Won’t know if I do not try. Unsure of your area, but where I am the “creditor rights” law firms such as mine hire 4-5 times per year multiplied by 3-4 law firms.

If worst comes to be and I suck at sales? Well, I could be doing what I hate doing now in a matter of weeks again.

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jeffm (Jul 14, 2018 - 5:32 pm)

I know 2 sisters who are in device sales for BigPharma. Both like it very much, and they are paid well. They get to hang with doctors and actually teach the doctors how to use their products. This could definitely be a very interesting experience.

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snowday75 (Jul 14, 2018 - 10:17 pm)

I liked pitching collections clients at my first firm. The sales aspect is fun, as is the follow up to seal the client.

I just am done with law firms and law. My first firm gave no comissions for bringing clients but expected it (I made $42k there and as I brought in new clients they’d send me to collections CLEs in various cities). The luster of that wears off when owners are making I assume at least $5,000 a month off that LOB per client. I signed up 3 over my 2 years that placed crapllections accts monthly.

My current firm services national companies with incredible regulatory and compliance demands. My employment contract terminates if I do any legal work on behalf of anyone but the Owner’s clients.

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mcacollector (Jul 17, 2018 - 8:04 am)

I have been doing collections work for almost 5 years. During that time, I have looked for other jobs, but nothing pays as well as this. I work mostly with commercial debt though, so perhaps consumer debt is different. I really don’t care if it is frowned upon by other attorneys either, because I’m financially doing better than virtually all of my friends I graduated with at this point. Also, stress (although it exists) isn’t as bad as, say, preparing for trial or something. I also rarely go to court as I mostly just enforce judgments.

I would definitely think long and hard before making the switch unless you get an offer that is much better financially and weigh the pros and cons. Best of luck!

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billcarson (Oct 16, 2018 - 3:59 am)

I Am OP. Ultimately made the switch to representing injury plaintiffs but hate it. I am going to work for an old colleague who now has his own collections volume he picked up.

I am Leaving Law entirely when my final loan payment is made (April 2019 🙏). Just before my 30th birthday. I am writing off my 20s as a big waste of time—like those who spend their 20s in and out of the drunk tank before wising up.

That was my JD/esq experience. I hope things are going well for you yet.

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mnjd (Jul 17, 2018 - 11:08 am)

Snowy, your tale of woe sounds much like the high volume PI churn and burn mill I work at. From the looks of it, you practice out of the twin cities?

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snowday75 (Jul 17, 2018 - 12:08 pm)

Hey man yeah Twin Cities job but I live north off 35. I am gradually noy showing up at the office and only doing my existing hearings. We are probably applying to all the same very limited job opportunities. Good luck. You should look into UHG off 169 and 62, your PI exp prob could get you into their insurance compliance stuff, albeit as a cog who needs to follow their career path & not as a lawyer... but who cares, UHG is a F10 company. Way better than any opportunity in MN small law.

Headed into courtroom, take care man.

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mnjd (Jul 17, 2018 - 12:16 pm)

Thanks. I'll take a look. Off to another monotonous Plaintiff depo in New Brighton. Yuck. I'll let you know if we end up hiring or if I hear anything. GEICO was hiring for a while. Great guys over there and a really laid back office.

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snowday75 (Jul 17, 2018 - 12:23 pm)

Get lunch at The Exchange in NB off the CR E2 exit of 35w. Its great.

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cabe2000 (Sep 6, 2018 - 6:15 pm)

I started a Litigation Associate position nearly three weeks ago. The position has a reasonable pay with benefits. I've had time to see what collections and creditor's rights are all about. Even though it is a great opportunity to learn motion practice and appear in court frequently, its just not fulfilling to me. As some have pointed out correctly before, it's all about churning and burning. The name of the game is to get money regardless the means towards that goal. With that said, I, personally, feel that I am not using my skills for a good cause. I need to focus my energy and time to the practice(s) that I am really interested in pursuing. I have made my decision which is to leave the firm. I am looking for input/suggestions as to how to gracefully leave the job. Thanks!!!

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jeffm (Sep 6, 2018 - 8:02 pm)

Just say what you said above. Thank them and wish them well.

Not sure what "good cause" you are hoping your services will support. Hell, it's almost all about money when it comes down to it.

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lawyer2 (Oct 15, 2018 - 3:01 am)

I've been going back and forth about accepting an offer with a Big(ger) creditor rights firm. Something tells me I should've asked for more money, but the current offer is $85k/yr. I've been surviving on my own doing of-counsel, appearance, and other creditor work on my own, but I need some steady income and benefits. I get that it's considered lower-tier legal work, but I actually enjoy going to court, motion practice and working with consumers. (I typically give them the biggest break I can get away with because I know how things can get) The attorney I'd be replacing told me I could keep my side hustles as long as it's not consumer law. Further, I talked to a consumer attorney awhile back who is absolutely crushing it who said learn all you can from the creditors then switch teams.
Being a lawyer is a second career for me (I'm 42), I've only been licensed a year an a half and really have no interest in working long hours as a lowly associate.

That said, I'm really interested in what the OP eventually decided on.

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daveramsey (Oct 15, 2018 - 9:37 am)

Take the job, pay down debt, and at about 10 months experience begin applying with the understanding you will be working to get that new job offer for 6 or so months (maybe less, who knows).

Under no circumstance do you stay in that firm more than 24 months without looking for new work.

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