Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

So the ABA says Kavanaugh needs an fbi investigation

But they aren’t saying this of Ellison who is still a lawy underemployedlawyer09/28/18
Ellison called for an investigation of himself, you fruit lo therewillbeblood09/28/18
It's hard enough to prove whether sexual assault happened th loser1209/28/18
I sort have been following along but not in depthly. So far, lolwutjobs09/28/18
Don't forget the high school yearbook. loser1209/28/18
The calendars are worthless (come on - who pencils in improm nycatt09/28/18
Fair enough. Although I think this should have been done le lolwutjobs09/28/18
I agree - they should look into the time line. GOP was blam nycatt09/28/18
Feinstein deliberately delayed, but the gop rushed through t dingbat09/29/18
The calendars? Seriously? Are you all out of your damn minds therewillbeblood09/28/18
Which he did not deny what Renate Alumnius meant at the hear fettywap09/28/18
He kinda sorta did. He certainly didn’t own up to its ful dingbat09/29/18
The ABA lost credibility with me when they enrolled me into themapmaster09/28/18
Curious in an fbi investigation will Ford have to turn over underemployedlawyer09/28/18
I think they can get them because they were turned over to a nycatt09/28/18
None of them have to cooperate with the FBI, do they? No sh fettywap09/28/18
Why? She put them into issue. At ifvdhe didn’t actually na underemployedlawyer09/28/18
They wouldn't have time to get medical records within a one fettywap09/28/18
I just don't get why he'd lie about blacking out. The ar loser1209/28/18
He made a mental miscalculation on that one. He was a membe nycatt09/28/18
"Would have been fine to say he blacked out on occasion, eve jeffm09/28/18
This. The times I've really tired one on I wake up and the wutwutwut09/28/18
Very interesting that two of you never blacked out. I think nycatt09/29/18
Very interesting that two of you never blacked out. I think nycatt09/29/18
comes down to Hubris. All he had to say is that he had no dingbat09/28/18
"All he had to say is that he had no recollection of the eve jeffm09/28/18
U must be great at weighing credibility, Jeff. I think it’ fuckyouracists09/28/18
"I'm sorry if I roughed you up, even though it never happene jeffm09/28/18
Dude, he used to drink. And get drunk. No big deal. Based dingbat09/29/18
Exactly. I was pretty surprised he didn't go that route. I nycatt09/28/18
It was a trap question. Since it’s not a criminal trial, qdllc09/30/18
This is a politically motivated smear campaign. The ABA patenttrollnj09/29/18
Disagree. There is credible evidence that Kav did the deed. nycatt09/29/18
Oh, I do agree with you on that last bit. The FBI investiga patenttrollnj09/29/18
I have litigated for ten years. Hell, as young associate, I nycatt09/29/18
Exactly. fuckyouracists09/29/18
I don’t feel bad for Kavanaugh. What goes around comes ar dingbat09/29/18
Not sure I see the credible testimony. I am a litigator as w lolwutjobs09/29/18
Judge Kav won't be deposed as to his current position, and h jmoney09/30/18
Too bad all of this comes down to the vote of political hypo qdllc09/30/18
If that is her friend's testimony, I agree with you; it will nycatt09/30/18
I watched the hearings....it was painful. I’ve been on qdllc09/30/18
I don’t give a hoot about what may or may not have been do dingbat09/30/18
Yeah, I think the lying under oath thing will hurt him. I d nycatt09/30/18

underemployedlawyer (Sep 28, 2018 - 10:57 am)

But they aren’t saying this of Ellison who is still a lawyer and is running for an Attorney job while Kavanaugh can’t practice law as he is a judge. ABA is showing bias especially as Ellison faces far serious allegations

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therewillbeblood (Sep 28, 2018 - 11:16 am)

Ellison called for an investigation of himself, you fruit loop. Why would the ABA waste time on that? And why would there be an FBI investigation of Ellison in the first place? The FBI investigates Supreme Court nominees as part of their job. Any alleged thing Ellison did would be a state law enforcement matter.

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loser12 (Sep 28, 2018 - 11:21 am)

It's hard enough to prove whether sexual assault happened the next day. 40-years later, good luck. I don't care much for politics, but a lot of the democratic senators' questions annoyed me - questions about whether he got drunk or made jokes about farting are beyond irrelevant, and the logical leap from getting drunk at HS and college parties to being a sexual predator is beyond steep.

I kind of like the idea of an FBI investigation, because it all boils down to the credibility of the witnesses. Kavanaugh's testimony is largely irrelevant. The witnesses are either trustworthy or they aren't. I think the idea that the accusations are motivated by a disdain for Trump is unreasonable, but think it's plausible that Kavanaugh's position on Roe v. Wade could subject him to false accusations. Some women may see throwing him under the bus and subjecting themselves to public stigma as a form of self-sacrifice for the greater good. People do all kinds of things they'd otherwise see as unethical in the name of freedom. On the other hand, it's possible that Kavanaugh was a different person in his youth than he was as an adult.

Although it seems irrelevant, if I were a fact finder, I'd be interested in knowing the accuser's political positions and their extent of political involvement (and I'm pro-choice). I also think it's possible that one victim may be telling the truth, and another may be lying but that in the public's eyes, if one is discredited, they'll all be discredited.

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lolwutjobs (Sep 28, 2018 - 11:51 am)

I sort have been following along but not in depthly. So far, is this the evidence we have?:

In support of Ford:
Her sworn testimony

In support of Kavanaugh:
His sworn testimony
His calendars
Judge's sworn affidavit
Ford's eyewitnesses refusing to testify because they didn't see him there that night

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loser12 (Sep 28, 2018 - 12:29 pm)

Don't forget the high school yearbook.

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nycatt (Sep 28, 2018 - 2:37 pm)

The calendars are worthless (come on - who pencils in impromptu parties in their calendars -- no one, because it is literally impossible) and Judge is accused of the same thing, so his testimony is not particularly more persuasive. Her friend says she does not remember the party, but she believes her. That does not help Kavanaugh. Personally, I think the the evidence is equally persuasive (although Kavanaugh obviously lied about a few things, like blacking out). FBI should definitely look into this and hopefully give us a little something more. The penis showing thing was not cool nor the Renate Alumnius, but I would give it a pass; sounds like a drunken mistake, but ot to the level that Congress needs to hear about it. I am fairly doubtful of the rape train thing, but FBI should disprove. Personally, I think karma is running Kavanaugh through the gauntlet for his Starr report shenanigans

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lolwutjobs (Sep 28, 2018 - 2:47 pm)

Fair enough. Although I think this should have been done leading up to the process, since it appears clear that nothing yesterday could've avoided the same.

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nycatt (Sep 28, 2018 - 3:41 pm)

I agree - they should look into the time line. GOP was blaming Feinstein for holding onto the allegation. If it is true (I am not going to assume she did it for some grand political reason, but she could definitely be doing her best Game of Thrones Lady Olenna impersonation), it is not not cool. I expect the media to look into this. At the same time, GOP received some tips too that were held back as well.

Edit - i think Cognress's bipartisan mal-treatment of Anita Hill 20+ years ago is also part of the problem. Nobody wants to be treated the way she did if they can help it. That was soooo bad.

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dingbat (Sep 29, 2018 - 8:43 pm)

Feinstein deliberately delayed, but the gop rushed through the typical process

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therewillbeblood (Sep 28, 2018 - 3:51 pm)

The calendars? Seriously? Are you all out of your damn minds?

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fettywap (Sep 28, 2018 - 12:33 pm)

Which he did not deny what Renate Alumnius meant at the hearing yesterday.

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dingbat (Sep 29, 2018 - 8:42 pm)

He kinda sorta did. He certainly didn’t own up to its fuller implications, and he blamed the yearbook staff

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themapmaster (Sep 28, 2018 - 2:52 pm)

The ABA lost credibility with me when they enrolled me into their association and billed me for a membership even though I never signed up for anything.

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underemployedlawyer (Sep 28, 2018 - 3:59 pm)

Curious in an fbi investigation will Ford have to turn over her medical psychiatric records she brought them into issue?

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nycatt (Sep 28, 2018 - 4:19 pm)

I think they can get them because they were turned over to a news paper. they aren't going to help anything. They can talk to the husband and therapist.

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fettywap (Sep 28, 2018 - 4:03 pm)

None of them have to cooperate with the FBI, do they?
No she won't have to turn over medical records.

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underemployedlawyer (Sep 28, 2018 - 4:13 pm)

Why? She put them into issue. At ifvdhe didn’t actually name her rapist or said a different name to her shrink ?

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fettywap (Sep 28, 2018 - 6:23 pm)

They wouldn't have time to get medical records within a one week investigation for one thing.

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loser12 (Sep 28, 2018 - 4:10 pm)

I just don't get why he'd lie about blacking out.

The argument that if he blacked out, he can't be sure he didn't assault her is not evidence he assaulted her and the fact he blacked out in college doesn't make him a drunk/unfit.

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nycatt (Sep 28, 2018 - 4:13 pm)

He made a mental miscalculation on that one. He was a member of the hardest drinking frat at yale. Would have been fine to say he blacked out on occasion, everyone has. Everyone knows he lied.

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jeffm (Sep 28, 2018 - 6:02 pm)

"Would have been fine to say he blacked out on occasion, everyone has."

Not me. I hit the sick/puking stage long before I'd ever pass out. Never even came close to passing out. Never forgot a thing... unfortunately.

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wutwutwut (Sep 28, 2018 - 10:19 pm)

This. The times I've really tired one on I wake up and the first thing that hits me is mortification about how I was acting the night before (dancing while wearing a lampshade hat or whatever).

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nycatt (Sep 29, 2018 - 12:18 pm)

Very interesting that two of you never blacked out. I think that you need to drink liquor to black out. (i love liquor :() Drinking beer alone, it is very very hard to black out, becuase it is easy to drink 8 liquor servings in an hour, but not so much with beer. COuld help Kav since he loves beer :)

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nycatt (Sep 29, 2018 - 12:18 pm)

Very interesting that two of you never blacked out. I think that you need to drink liquor to black out. (i love liquor :() Drinking beer alone, it is very very hard to black out, becuase it is easy to drink 8 liquor servings in an hour, but not so much with beer. COuld help Kav since he loves beer :)

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dingbat (Sep 28, 2018 - 6:58 pm)

comes down to Hubris.

All he had to say is that he had no recollection of the event and he couldn't imagine it was him, but there were times where he drank, and if he had been a little overbearing, and if someone misunderstood that, then he's sorry.


Kinda how Martha Stewart should have said "I'm not in the investing business. My friend called me that the stock was gonna tank, I panicked and sold. I'm sorry", and she would have gotten a slap on the wrist. Instead she tried destroying evidence, and got in much bigger trouble

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jeffm (Sep 28, 2018 - 7:06 pm)

"All he had to say is that he had no recollection of the event and he couldn't imagine it was him, but there were times where he drank, and if he had been a little overbearing, and if someone misunderstood that, then he's sorry."

b/c you were there?

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fuckyouracists (Sep 28, 2018 - 7:12 pm)

U must be great at weighing credibility, Jeff. I think it’s time to get those old eyes checked. Be sure to send a war chest your way if needed. This guy can defend anything! Heard Trumps looking for a hotshot solo. His old lawyer, u may know him, Cohen is about to go into lock up. Have an opening.

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jeffm (Sep 28, 2018 - 10:48 pm)

"I'm sorry if I roughed you up, even though it never happened."

That doesn't make very much sense does it?

You have to take the man at his position, unless you have proof to the contrary. It turns out the only proof lies in the alleged victim's head. Even all the eye-witnesses she named said they have no recollection of her allegations. What's left?

Maybe the upcoming investigation will unearth something.

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dingbat (Sep 29, 2018 - 8:48 pm)

Dude, he used to drink. And get drunk. No big deal.
Based on his testimony alone I can tell he’d be a belligerent drunk.

all he had to do was say he has no recollection - which is believable because he drank a lot.

Now he lied about getting drunk, and once you get caught lying, it just sorta snowballs.

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nycatt (Sep 28, 2018 - 7:59 pm)

Exactly. I was pretty surprised he didn't go that route. If you litigate for ten minutes, you know that the cover up is always worse than crime.

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qdllc (Sep 30, 2018 - 7:04 pm)

It was a trap question. Since it’s not a criminal trial, admitting to having blacked out from drinking doesn’t prove assault, but in a political witch hunt, that it happened once become “proof” that it must have happened before when he tried to rape Ms. Ford.

Besides, being part of a drinking frat does not prove one has drunk until they black out. You need eyewitness from that frat to prove otherwise.

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patenttrollnj (Sep 29, 2018 - 1:06 am)

This is a politically motivated smear campaign.

The ABA is as irrelevant as I am when it comes to this matter. They have no power. All they can do is talk.

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nycatt (Sep 29, 2018 - 9:45 am)

Disagree. There is credible evidence that Kav did the deed. There is credible evidence he didn't do the deed too. ABA is right to ask for an investigation because it would be a taint not to do so. This is a job interview, not a fundamental right. Something tells me an FBI investigation will benefit Kav greatly.

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patenttrollnj (Sep 29, 2018 - 11:08 am)

Oh, I do agree with you on that last bit. The FBI investigation will likely provide more evidence about the accuser's unwell mental state, as well as some evidence that she was coerced.

However, there is NO credible evidence she presented. Other than some tearful testimony, she can't remember details and no witness agrees with her.

It's a political hit-job!

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nycatt (Sep 29, 2018 - 12:08 pm)

I have litigated for ten years. Hell, as young associate, I witnessed Trump being deposed and prepared questions:) Here is something you may not know since you do patent law - credible testimony is credible evidence. You look you don't know litigation when you say no credible evidence was presented. No offense, I know a little about patent law because i have a friend who is a patent judge and another at a white shoe patent firm, and they don't know shit about litigation because they dont have to. I am frankly jealous.. In any event, often, that is all there is, especially in an attempted rape case, and even many civil cases will have oral testimony only except for a few sparse documents that are not in dispute. There is no evidence the accusations themselves were a political hit job (although Feinberg's timing of releasing them may have been a brutal political hit job for sure - I am very curious about that). If you saw any of the testimony, you will know she ain't lying. Also, not sure if you are old enough to watch Anita Hill hearings, but if you saw them, you would understand why a woman would not want to come forward unless she absolutely had too. The senate was disgusting. I would watch the Ford testimony before you tell any woman it was a political hit job, or you may be sleeping on the couch. If Feinstein sat on this, it was a horrible move. This stuff should have played out behind close doors, and I am sad for Kavanaugh and Dr.Ford. This sucked hard for both of them.

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fuckyouracists (Sep 29, 2018 - 12:10 pm)

Exactly.

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dingbat (Sep 29, 2018 - 8:51 pm)

I don’t feel bad for Kavanaugh.
What goes around comes around.

It was very sanctimonious to complain about a sex scandal investigation considering that a sex scandal investigation made his career

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lolwutjobs (Sep 29, 2018 - 11:54 pm)

Not sure I see the credible testimony. I am a litigator as well, numerous successful trials under my belt, but a plaintiff's key witnesses' testimony that "she does not remember the party, but she believes her." Only helps Kav

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jmoney (Sep 30, 2018 - 1:51 am)

Judge Kav won't be deposed as to his current position, and he will be confirmed to the Supreme Court. Judge K. will never be impeached, either.

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qdllc (Sep 30, 2018 - 8:10 am)

Too bad all of this comes down to the vote of political hypocrites who have already decided based on prejudices and not the evidence.

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nycatt (Sep 30, 2018 - 9:04 am)

If that is her friend's testimony, I agree with you; it will help Kav for sure. so far, all that is on the record is Kav and Dr. Ford. That is why they need to do an investigation; get some more testimony on the record.

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qdllc (Sep 30, 2018 - 8:44 am)

I watched the hearings....it was painful.

I’ve been on both sides of this issue. I was molested as a young teen by a couple of classmates and never told anyone about it.

I’ve also had years of hard work and thousands of dollars wiped away by an anonymous complaint that was never investigated or corroborated, and nobody gave me a chance to tell my side or rebutt the allegations. My good name was destroyed because the job was in a politicized environment, and the decision maker didn’t care about facts or due process.

I knew at 12 (when I was molested), that if I didn’t tell anyone, I would never be able to prove it. After being defamed and having the accuser believed without proof, I strongly understood why a person should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

There are more than enough pathological liars in the world that no victim should be believed without proof. Pathological liars can readily look sincere and fool polygraph exams.

Maybe Dr. Ford told the truth. She seemed sincere, but it’s obvious that she was prepped for the hearing. There was no vigorous examination or cross-examination to see if her story held up under scrutiny. Whenever she seemed to get into a tight space, one of her two lawyers jumped in to derail the line of questioning. It amounted to nothing more than a retelling of her existing allegations. She could just as well be lying.

Judge Kavanaugh doesn’t bear the burden of proving he didn’t do as alleged. He has a long and distinguished record that speaks for him. People who like to sexually assault women don’t just do it once and stop...they usually are repeat offenders. If he is guilty, I hope credible evidence shows up to prove it, because otherwise, his life’s work has been destroyed by politicians playing games...caring not about the parties being affected.

Whatever the truth is, I hope it’s exposed and shouted from the rooftops. If Kavanaugh is guilty, he certainly deserves what he’s getting. If Dr. Ford is lying, she should get the full 5 years in prison and be held up as an example of why true rape victims are doubted when they come forward.

Most of all, I am disgusted by this whole process. The weeklong FBI investigation going on now is largely meaningless. If they find nothing to corroborate Dr. Ford’s story or prove Judge Kavanaugh lied, we know what will happen. The Democrats will vote against confirmation for any other ideological reason, and Republicans will vote to confirm because (hopefully) they still believe he’s qualified in spite of all he’s been put through. Not one person on the committee really gives a damn about the people involved....they are in it for themselves. Ford and Kavanaugh are just chess pieces on the board.

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dingbat (Sep 30, 2018 - 10:31 am)

I don’t give a hoot about what may or may not have been done by some stupid drunk kid thirty years ago.

I do care about his lying under oath

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nycatt (Sep 30, 2018 - 2:59 pm)

Yeah, I think the lying under oath thing will hurt him. I definitely don't care that he flashed his dick at a party. I am also not a big fan of his high level anger in that he did the same thing to Clinton and Clinton's victims. How can he be so outraged when at Feinstein politicizing this given that he leaked Clinton stuff all over the place to hurt Clinton AND hurt the woman Clinton abused. Stay in the game long enough, and what goes around, comes around.

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