Remembering TCPaul, 2016-2019

Even the “winners” can be losers

33-year-old South Carolina female attorney making $115,000 a ibrslave12/14/18
More interested in one of their previous $100,000 female int irishlaw12/14/18
I feel her. I make more and a little younger but I also grad lolwutjobs12/14/18
Denial. It’s not just a river in Egypt. qdllc12/14/18
As long as this person is on IBR she’s fine as far as mont um1l12/14/18
I don't think paying $900 a month for the next 25 years beca fettywap12/15/18
Strong this lolwutjobs12/15/18
Well you know she could pay the actual monthly payment for 1 triplesix12/17/18
Apparently she has been on ibr for some time, given she said wutwutwut12/15/18
She says that the loan balance is not going down, despite si somefed12/15/18
Best finance lesson ever: Live below your means and pay ext jeffm12/15/18
That's sexist bro. Gotta ball today! triplesix12/17/18
That is great advice for people who can swing it. The proble somefed12/16/18
She’s not a winner, it’s just law is so bad nowadays tha wearyattorney12/16/18
It's one thing to compare 2 careers, both having 40+ hour wo jeffm12/16/18
At 45, if you do the career where “you have no choice but wearyattorney12/16/18
"Smart people are going to understand that the advice you ar jeffm12/16/18
Boss or no boss, retirement at 45 beats having to work and c wearyattorney12/16/18
I think there is a huge difference in the debt burden for st somefed12/17/18
Having worked with law enforcement, there is a reason their a8464812/17/18
I think people in law enforcement, for the most part, earn t rubberduck12/17/18
agreed on postal workers but you think firefighters "have it williamdrayton12/17/18

ibrslave (Dec 14, 2018 - 3:47 pm)

33-year-old South Carolina female attorney making $115,000 a year not even able to pay down her student loan debt, but makes it sound like she won the law school lottery: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.refinery29.com/amp/en-us/six-figure-salary-story-attorney-student-loan-debt

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irishlaw (Dec 14, 2018 - 4:03 pm)

More interested in one of their previous $100,000 female interview...the 28 year old senior social media associate...lol what?

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lolwutjobs (Dec 14, 2018 - 4:53 pm)

I feel her. I make more and a little younger but I also graduated with more student loans and balance has never gone down

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qdllc (Dec 14, 2018 - 7:00 pm)

Denial. It’s not just a river in Egypt.

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um1l (Dec 14, 2018 - 7:09 pm)

As long as this person is on IBR she’s fine as far as month to month income.

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fettywap (Dec 15, 2018 - 11:44 am)

I don't think paying $900 a month for the next 25 years because you went to law school is "fine."

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lolwutjobs (Dec 15, 2018 - 5:35 pm)

Strong this

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triplesix (Dec 17, 2018 - 10:02 am)

Well you know she could pay the actual monthly payment for 10 years and be done like the rest of us proles...

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wutwutwut (Dec 15, 2018 - 8:43 am)

Apparently she has been on ibr for some time, given she said she started with 150k in LS debt and has now tacked another 70k atop that.

But at her new current salary of 115k, too what extent is she ibr eligible?

And of course, tax bomb if/when she gets to forgiveness.

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somefed (Dec 15, 2018 - 9:38 am)

She says that the loan balance is not going down, despite sizeable payments. It is probably due to high interest rates. Law schools really need to educate their students about options regarding loan consolidation, refinancing, etc.

At my school, we had one mandatory session about repaying student loans. They basically told us that we were obligated to pay all of our loans and should try to repay private loans faster than low interest federal loans. The session did not cover consolidation options or refinancing. The schools should have a finance professional explain these concepts. Unfortunately,a lot of law grads are ignorant about finance.

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jeffm (Dec 15, 2018 - 9:53 am)

Best finance lesson ever: Live below your means and pay extra on your debts as much as you can to get out of debt as quickly as possible.

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triplesix (Dec 17, 2018 - 10:04 am)

That's sexist bro. Gotta ball today!

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somefed (Dec 16, 2018 - 2:04 pm)

That is great advice for people who can swing it. The problem is that law school tuitons are out of control, and a lot of people have to take loans. Many of the entry level law jobs do not pay enough to cover rent plus loan payments. The law schools need to be proactive in educating grads about repayment options.

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wearyattorney (Dec 16, 2018 - 2:50 pm)

She’s not a winner, it’s just law is so bad nowadays that surviving means winning. Like if you make a teacher salary with triple the stress, work, and half the benefits (and a hefty student loan bill too), in law, you have to shut your mouth and be happy.

These guys are winners:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/08/27/new-yorks-best-paid-public-employees-are-long-island-cops/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2018/03/27/port-authority-cops-set-new-records-with-overtime-pay/amp/

https://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2017/06/top_25_median_police_salaries_in_bergen_county.html


When they retire, at 45, they’ll move to a place like South Carolina and sleep in until noon collecting more in pension than what the lawyer in your article makes working (paying the student loan is just a cherry on top).

Darwinism is a beautiful thing. Smarts count for nothing, cunning counts for everything.

There’s a lemming reading this right now. Said lemming will say yeah man, but how hard is it to get one of those jobs, striving for partnership in biglaw or a successful solo practice is much more doable. ROFL. And the older I get, I realize that isn’t a bad thing, survival of the fittest and what not.

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jeffm (Dec 16, 2018 - 3:00 pm)

It's one thing to compare 2 careers, both having 40+ hour work weeks. It's quite a different thing to compare a career where you can work 1-3 hours a day to one where you have no choice but to put in a full 8 hours each day. It's also quite a different thing to compare a career where you can be your own boss to one where it is guaranteed ever to happen.

I don't think there's a formula or statistics that will prove law is an inferior choice.

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wearyattorney (Dec 16, 2018 - 3:43 pm)

At 45, if you do the career where “you have no choice but to put in a full 8 hours everyday,” you literally don’t have to work ever again. You can have all the leisure time you want and have total security in the leisure.

People, the ones that aren’t shackled by the economic conventions associated with your generation (which do not exist anymore), are free to decide if they want to “work 1-3 hours a day,” in addition to the time it takes to get clients and the instabilities associated with the modern economy, or if they don’t want to have anymore economies worries at 45.

Smart people are going to understand that the advice you are providing stems from an economy that no longer exists because of globalization and immigration, and stupid people are going to be food for law school professors. (Those are really the only people in the legal profession that have stability, leisure, and a respectable salary).

It’s that simple.

Also, the 45 year old retired cop can become a lawyer and do what you are indicating, with no student loans in many instances if the department pays for it, and paid for health care and a pension. The 45 year old lawyer has no choice but to keep working, unless his or her parents had money and/or he or she made very wise investments.

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jeffm (Dec 16, 2018 - 3:51 pm)

"Smart people are going to understand that the advice you are providing stems from an economy that no longer exists because of globalization and immigration..."

I can appreciate all your counter-points, except this one.

Back in the late 1990's, it was still the same. We worried about job security. We had doubts about being able to go solo, despite the fact that solos were everywhere saying, "Yes, you can." Not that it was a road to riches; just that you could make a good living hanging a shingle.

Nevertheless, there will still be some part of you that continues to disbelieve this is the case. You will tell yourself something was different for us. It wasn't. But anyway, life is an adventure. You'll have to experience it for yourself. To each his own. Some people function better and get things done better when they have a boss telling them what must be done.

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wearyattorney (Dec 16, 2018 - 6:01 pm)

Boss or no boss, retirement at 45 beats having to work and chase work until 70.

And the economy from the perspective of labor, whether as an independent contractor (solo) or as an employee, has been declining since the 1990s (and before). The reasons are globalization and immigration. Law happens to be the bottom of the barrel, but it’s all bad by and large.

The guys in the article aren’t pulling down 300k plus salaries and six figures because their services are in demand, they are pulling it in because they vote. You vote, you get paid. That’s the way now.

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somefed (Dec 17, 2018 - 3:37 pm)

I think there is a huge difference in the debt burden for students who attended law school in the 1990s versus now. Most major private law schools are charging 40K a year just for tuiton. Add in the cost of living and the students are looking at 60k per year in loans.

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a84648 (Dec 17, 2018 - 12:09 pm)

Having worked with law enforcement, there is a reason their retirement is 20 years. If you talk with a police officer, their job is crap, they deal with crap all day long and rarely have the excitement that TV portrays they have on a regular basis. Many in law enforcement experience events that are likely to cause PTSD. The job description of a police officer could include dying in the line of duty, something that we as lawyers don't have to deal with.

In addition, the current environment gives no respect to law enforcement, they are often sued and have to work crappy hours for the better part of their career.

Finally, most law enforcement are paid badly. There are some who are paid well, but the majority are not.

Just my two cents.

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rubberduck (Dec 17, 2018 - 12:25 pm)

I think people in law enforcement, for the most part, earn their pension after 20 years. But firefighters and postal service workers? These guys have it too easy.

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williamdrayton (Dec 17, 2018 - 3:17 pm)

agreed on postal workers but you think firefighters "have it too easy".

I guess if and when you ever have a fire in your home go about the business of putting it out yourself rather than disturbing those ne'er do well firefighters

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