Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

2020 USNWR rankings leaked

Spivey Consulting leaked 2020 rankings (again): https://www ibrslave03/06/19
Is Rutgers missing from this list? blackholelaw03/06/19
Yeah seems that way. Did you go to Rutgers? If so which camp isthisit03/07/19
Rip Rutgers lilgub03/08/19
Like in all things, Rutgers is always last AF. isthisit03/08/19
I really want to post the thread below about someone repayin trijocker03/06/19
Sheesh - I thought that kind of thinking died with the last 6figuremistake03/06/19
What is shocking is the belief that everyone will be making trijocker03/06/19
I don’t think you can throw down $100,000 on loans even wi irishlaw03/06/19
You can’t throw 100k a year on a seventh year associate sa wearyattorney03/06/19
I think Dallas biglaw is the only place where that might be dingbat03/06/19
Our Houston office pays market...they take their summer asso irishlaw03/06/19
If free markets and individual liberty are the future, Texas wearyattorney03/06/19
Yet millions of people on both coasts are doing fine. trickydick03/06/19
Law school is perfect for people with inheritances First, t trijocker03/07/19
I have virtually no sympathy for anyone choosing to go to la finklebots03/06/19
I have dramatically reduced sympathy, but understand that wh wearyattorney03/06/19
It's not an unknown phenomenon, people are more likely to be thirdtierlaw03/06/19
You hit every point cogently and effectively. I couldn’t s wearyattorney03/06/19
Doooon't caaaaare. tcpaul03/06/19
Rutgers got knocked out of the rankings. I wonder how we did isthisit03/07/19
The list was pulled. Was curious where UT is now. jeffm03/07/19
ATL still has the "leaked" rankings up. UT is at 16, right trijocker03/07/19
ATL still has the "leaked" rankings up. UT is at 16, right trijocker03/07/19
Do you know why 14 is the magic number? I would think 10, o jeffm03/07/19
Historically T14 has been the Magic number, like Big Four wi trijocker03/07/19
Accounting firms weee once the big 8. Then the big 7, 6, 5, dingbat03/07/19
I think it’s because the biglaw employment rate takes a hu irishlaw03/07/19
Supposedly, the T-14 is used to reflect the schools that at toooldtocare03/07/19
That’s a more recent development dingbat03/07/19
That’s a more recent development dingbat03/07/19
The first ranking, I believe in 1987, listed the first fourt dingbat03/07/19
I fell for the scam. Liberal arts major with no real skills lolstudent03/09/19

ibrslave (Mar 6, 2019 - 9:59 am)

Spivey Consulting leaked 2020 rankings (again): https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.spiveyconsulting.com/2020-usnwr-rankings-2019-release/amp/. Looks like several schools are not included in this ranking, e.g., Penn State. Spivey Consulting’s Twitter feed discusses this and says they’re looking into it.

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blackholelaw (Mar 6, 2019 - 6:55 pm)

Is Rutgers missing from this list?

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isthisit (Mar 7, 2019 - 9:50 am)

Yeah seems that way. Did you go to Rutgers? If so which campus and year.

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lilgub (Mar 8, 2019 - 2:40 pm)

Rip Rutgers

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isthisit (Mar 8, 2019 - 4:16 pm)

Like in all things, Rutgers is always last AF.

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trijocker (Mar 6, 2019 - 10:26 am)

I really want to post the thread below about someone repaying their loans in the reddit sub about law school admissions.
Those young people have no idea what they are getting into.
One poster remarked that it was acceptable to take out 300000 in loans, because they could just pay 100000 a year back with their "biglaw" job. These students should come on JDU and see what real life is like.

http://www.jdunderground.com/law/thread.php?threadId=184226

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6figuremistake (Mar 6, 2019 - 11:24 am)

Sheesh - I thought that kind of thinking died with the last recession and the scam blog backlash. I figured the kids going to law school today at least went in with a greater sense of financial restraint and more realistic job expectations. Should be fun reading some new scam blogs once the economy cools down a little.

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trijocker (Mar 6, 2019 - 4:10 pm)

What is shocking is the belief that everyone will be making biglaw salaries.
There is a wide range of career attorneys represented on this forum, some quite successful, others still hard at work supporting families and paying off law school loans.
I do not think it is representative of most attorney careers, that one will just be getting a position doing securities or venture capital work, and will be able to afford paying off 100000 per year. If I can think back on people I have met along the way, the people who were able to attend regional schools, and work while attending school part time at night, have ended up well. I am thinking of those I knew who attended SCU, which while no longer that highly rated, still educates a great deal of silicon valley attorneys, some who I know have had their employers pay off their tuition. I don't think the applicants realize what it will be like to go through life with 200000 to 300000 yoke around their neck, affecting the ability to buy a home, start a family or even buy a car or rent an apartment. Yes, the law schools send out glossy brochures, but please think carefully before signing that master promissory note and signing your life away.

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irishlaw (Mar 6, 2019 - 5:56 pm)

I don’t think you can throw down $100,000 on loans even with a first year associate salary in biglaw. After taxes, rent and necessities in a high cost of city living that is pretty close.

You’d have to live at home at a market firm in a low cost of living city (Like Jones Day I think they pay NY market in every office) to be comfortable.

ND still can’t pass up UMN...why?

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wearyattorney (Mar 6, 2019 - 7:16 pm)

You can’t throw 100k a year on a seventh year associate salary unless we are talking a vault 10 law firm.

This is why Democrats get elected.

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dingbat (Mar 6, 2019 - 7:16 pm)

I think Dallas biglaw is the only place where that might be possible

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irishlaw (Mar 6, 2019 - 7:20 pm)

Our Houston office pays market...they take their summer associates house hunting. I'm jealous everything time I go to Houston from NY.

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wearyattorney (Mar 6, 2019 - 7:30 pm)

If free markets and individual liberty are the future, Texas is probably the future of this country.

There is absolutely no hope to make it on the coasts, the coasts are for people that make it elsewhere and park their money their for safe keeping and also have a good time traveling therein. *


* People with inheritances need not consider the contents of this post.

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trickydick (Mar 6, 2019 - 11:28 pm)

Yet millions of people on both coasts are doing fine.

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trijocker (Mar 7, 2019 - 10:32 am)

Law school is perfect for people with inheritances
First, they can afford to go without burdening themselves with student loans.
Second, it gives them something to do, such as managing the family's foundation or real estate portfolio. Also, I have known trust funders that once they got out of law school, they just played tennis and drove their SL to the beach. No need to worry about working.

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finklebots (Mar 6, 2019 - 5:59 pm)

I have virtually no sympathy for anyone choosing to go to law school today who subsequently complains about their outcome. Ffs, Google "law school" and you see the Campos expose in The Atlantic and the law school Wikipedia page giving you the history of the student lawsuits.

I, otoh, applied to law school before Google even had their IPO.

Edit...fact checked my own assertion and it looks like the Campos article dropped down the search results since the last time I checked. Oh well, the point still stands... cautionary information is now readily available with minimal effort.

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wearyattorney (Mar 6, 2019 - 7:21 pm)

I have dramatically reduced sympathy, but understand that when these kids go talk to their Boomer parents or watch Boomer movies, they get a much different and powerful message. Who would you trust, your parents who “loved” you and have your “best interests” at heart or strangers on the Internet?

And then they come here and super boomers like jeffm talk about making 100k a year with no benefits or healthcare or predictability a win (when you can make more than that, half the year off, and gold plated benefits in most major cities accross the country).

But I agree, when you have honest law professors like Campos breaking it down, just because mama flower or papa boomer are telling you something different, most of it is on you.

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thirdtierlaw (Mar 6, 2019 - 7:44 pm)

It's not an unknown phenomenon, people are more likely to believe sources that support their world view and discredit sources that challenge it.

Yes the Campos article is out there, but so are the "million dollar degree" articles. Sure JDU speaks the truth, but if I recall correctly, even above the law would refer to this forum in a disparaging way.

Then those people go to TLS, and read posts from people, most 0L or 1Ls, breaking down how law school makes sense, jdu posters are just bitter losers who couldn't hack it, all while conveniently ignoring that there are very few people actually in the profession who are posting there.

Then you have the governmental tacit approval. Even with the scam blogs, though even those are disappearing, there is this thought of, "hey the government wouldn't lend me $200k to go to school if it really is as bad as those law washouts say it is."

So when you add in parental pressure it doesn't surprise me that law schools are still chugging along and people are still falling for the scam.

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wearyattorney (Mar 6, 2019 - 8:41 pm)

You hit every point cogently and effectively. I couldn’t say it any better myself.

I still post in the law forum in part to save any cautious soul that reads this stuff.

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tcpaul (Mar 6, 2019 - 8:18 pm)

Doooon't caaaaare.

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isthisit (Mar 7, 2019 - 9:51 am)

Rutgers got knocked out of the rankings. I wonder how we did on Cooley's?

ATL still has the rankings.

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jeffm (Mar 7, 2019 - 9:56 am)

The list was pulled. Was curious where UT is now.

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trijocker (Mar 7, 2019 - 10:36 am)

ATL still has the "leaked" rankings up.
UT is at 16, right below UCLA and GTown.

There used to be some rivalry between Gtown and UT, with Gtown keeping UT out, now UCLA is in play.

https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/leaked-2020-u-s-news-law-school-rankings/

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trijocker (Mar 7, 2019 - 10:36 am)

ATL still has the "leaked" rankings up.
UT is at 16, right below UCLA and GTown.

There used to be some rivalry between Gtown and UT, with Gtown keeping UT out, now UCLA is in play.

https://abovethelaw.com/2019/03/leaked-2020-u-s-news-law-school-rankings/

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jeffm (Mar 7, 2019 - 11:59 am)

Do you know why 14 is the magic number? I would think 10, or 20 or even 15. But 14?

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trijocker (Mar 7, 2019 - 12:18 pm)

Historically T14 has been the Magic number, like Big Four with CPA firms.
I don't know why it stops at 14, but GTown has memes about keeping UT out.
I have heard top twenty spoken of as well, but not as much.

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dingbat (Mar 7, 2019 - 1:19 pm)

Accounting firms weee once the big 8. Then the big 7, 6, 5, and after the collapse of Anderson, the big four

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irishlaw (Mar 7, 2019 - 12:25 pm)

I think it’s because the biglaw employment rate takes a huge drop (something like 20%) after 14...but with GT not doing so hot as compared to the other...I think the drop of is now around 13.

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toooldtocare (Mar 7, 2019 - 1:15 pm)

Supposedly, the T-14 is used to reflect the schools that at one point or another in the history of the USNWR rankings were in the top 10. There has been a lot of consistency in the top schools, and they changed places, but the same 14 schools were always in the top 10 at different times.
My law school is proudly a multiple of 14.

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dingbat (Mar 7, 2019 - 1:20 pm)

That’s a more recent development

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dingbat (Mar 7, 2019 - 1:20 pm)

That’s a more recent development

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dingbat (Mar 7, 2019 - 1:18 pm)

The first ranking, I believe in 1987, listed the first fourteen schools on the first page. The second page started with #15. It was purely a spacing issue

The fact that the same 14 schools stayed the T14 ever after just solidified it

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lolstudent (Mar 9, 2019 - 4:24 pm)

I fell for the scam. Liberal arts major with no real skills to speak of. I went to a t2/3 but managed to transfer. Still,I'll graduate owing around 140k and will have to do big law for years just to reach net worth $0. I could make less and use my school's LRAP program, but then I'd be making 60-70k like I did after undergrad.

Law school: where even the best outcome is mediocre.

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