Remembering TCPaul, 2016-2019

Onehell / MN bar

Onehell- based on your postings it looks like you went to LS hankhill03/28/19
I'm in MN. What do you want to know? quillan03/29/19
"I’d be interested to know what your observations on the T isthisit03/29/19
Only law school worth going to is UMN. Avoid the others. A bigsal03/29/19
yeah, that's not very specific. doesn't make a whole lot of quillan03/29/19
Sorry can't help, I didn't go to LS there and I actually don onehell03/29/19
A fair amount of law school graduates work for Thomson-Reute blawprof03/29/19
I’m sorry onehell. For whatever reason I thought you did. hankhill03/29/19
You should have the talk with her. She might not listen, bu quillan03/31/19
My 2 cents: The ONLY academic track justifying $100k+ deb catwoman33303/30/19
I went to U-Minnesota, left the Twin Cities several years ag dieter03/31/19
Between my 1L and 2L years, I "worked" (save the compensatio 6figuremistake04/01/19
I'm not aware of too many bad outcomes for pre-recession UMN quillan04/01/19
When you say “many” reached 500k, can you be more specif pherc04/02/19
Out of my class of 225 or so, I'm personally aware of approx quillan04/02/19
I've been out around a decade, and outcomes for my class wer shithead04/02/19
Job market sucks. Graduated in 2014 from the cesspool of Bil mnjd04/01/19
I went to UMN. Recession grad. Would not recommend to anyone masterpoaster04/01/19
If she is a member of a minority, it's not that bad of an id pisces21304/02/19
I've been a contractor at Thomson-Reuters out in Eagan, and shithead04/03/19
After a certain age, you stop thinking about whether or not parlance04/06/19

hankhill (Mar 28, 2019 - 9:27 pm)

Onehell- based on your postings it looks like you went to LS at Minnesota. I’d be interested to know what your observations on the Twin Cities bar and Twin Cities legal education is. Or if anyone else has anything to contribute. Thanks!

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quillan (Mar 29, 2019 - 1:54 pm)

I'm in MN. What do you want to know?

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isthisit (Mar 29, 2019 - 4:09 pm)

"I’d be interested to know what your observations on the Twin Cities bar and Twin Cities legal education is."

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bigsal (Mar 29, 2019 - 4:13 pm)

Only law school worth going to is UMN. Avoid the others. And even UMN is not that great.

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quillan (Mar 29, 2019 - 5:12 pm)

yeah, that's not very specific. doesn't make a whole lot of sense just to wax philosophical about the twin cities bar and law schools. if OP has specific questions and interests, i'd be happy to help.

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onehell (Mar 29, 2019 - 5:37 pm)

Sorry can't help, I didn't go to LS there and I actually don't think I've ever stepped foot in Minnesota.

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blawprof (Mar 29, 2019 - 6:13 pm)

A fair amount of law school graduates work for Thomson-Reuters in Eagan, Minnesota in various positions. Only UMN top students receive big law offers. Hamline and "Billy" Mitchell merged for a reason. Hamline essentially closed. The market is still pretty flooded with three law schools (UMN, Mitchell-Hamline, St. Thomas). Many lawyers still have $100k+ in debt. There are a number of big companies that have corporate headquarters in the Cities including Target, US Bank, and 3M. Minnesota is cold. Be prepared for sixth months of hard winter. Ice hockey is the sport in Minnesota.

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hankhill (Mar 29, 2019 - 6:48 pm)

I’m sorry onehell. For whatever reason I thought you did.

I have a relative who is considering partial scholarships at both Mitchell and Saint Thomas. She is from rural Minnesota but is pretty committed to living in the cities. I’m considering having a talk with her on the realities of the Legal market. From what I can tell many new attorneys struggle or get jobs as “research attorneys” at Thomson Reuters and I can’t imaginr those jobs pay more than 50 or 60. Thanks for the responses.

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quillan (Mar 31, 2019 - 6:25 pm)

You should have the talk with her. She might not listen, but at least direct her to some reading on the topic. The market for Mitchell and UST grads is not great even after 10 years of a strong economy in the Twin Cities (the top companies, such as UGH and Medtronic, have done fantastically well in recent years). The top of class students will get jobs with the local firms (it's a small market with just a handful of larg-ish firms) and everyone else is left to fend for themselves as solos, with small firms and the few government jobs, or with JD-preferred jobs at Thomson Reuters or in compliance at UnitedHealth or Prime Therapeutics. Even with a partial scholarship, the odds are long of getting a good enough job in the Twin Cities to make the bet a good one.

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catwoman333 (Mar 30, 2019 - 1:17 pm)

My 2 cents:

The ONLY academic track justifying $100k+ debt is medical school.

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dieter (Mar 31, 2019 - 10:52 pm)

I went to U-Minnesota, left the Twin Cities several years ago. It's a glutted market for lawyers. Anything but UMN will consign you to a life of frigid penury.

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6figuremistake (Apr 1, 2019 - 9:03 am)

Between my 1L and 2L years, I "worked" (save the compensation) at a DC policy group. There was a paid intern, who had pretty much bounced around from different internships post-graduation. He had graduated from UMN Law - I think with a decent rank. Not only did his employment history speak to the limited cache of such a degree, but he also testified that unless you were at the top of the class, you weren't doing your career any favors by going there. (This was pre-recession, btw.)

Interestingly, he got fed up and enrolled in UMN's B-School. He ended up getting a job pretty easily after that. I don't put a ton of stock into MBA programs, but it's quite telling that a JD is usually a dead end whereas B-Schools tend to open some doors. If UMN Law is that bad, the lesser schools have to be complete wastes.

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quillan (Apr 1, 2019 - 1:12 pm)

I'm not aware of too many bad outcomes for pre-recession UMN grads. Most of the people I know work for firms, in-house, government, and have good to great jobs (in terms of comp). A handful of my classmates were extremely (i.e., 99.9 percentile) successful, but many reached the 1 percent in income (currently around 500K). There were a few tough stories, but mostly those revolved around addiction/mental health issues, which is common for lawyers from any law school. Even the students at the bottom of the class did pretty well with county jobs or Thomson Reuters. Seems like the pre- and post-recession story is similar to most schools outside the HYS tier. That said, if I had it to do over, I'd go to b-school.

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pherc (Apr 2, 2019 - 7:40 am)

When you say “many” reached 500k, can you be more specific? That seems dubious at best. Unless you are talking about two wage earners (and even then it seems a little far fetched)

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quillan (Apr 2, 2019 - 5:44 pm)

Out of my class of 225 or so, I'm personally aware of approximately 30 who are partners at big law firms or are high enough up at large corporations to have exceeded that comp level. In addition, there are a couple who went into business and did extremely well. But remember, this is 20 years ago - outcomes were very different and almost everyone who wanted one got a lawyer job.

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shithead (Apr 2, 2019 - 7:10 pm)

I've been out around a decade, and outcomes for my class were much different from what you describe.

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mnjd (Apr 1, 2019 - 4:53 pm)

Job market sucks. Graduated in 2014 from the cesspool of Billy Mitchell. Mostly went there because they had a night program and I had a full-time job along with a family and 3 kids at the time. Several classmates left law after not finding a job after passing the bar. I got a job right away because I was a paralegal where I work now and they hired me on. Going to any law school in Minnesota is a waste of time and money due to the jobs out there. Every attorney I talk to in the PI field are miserable. Go on indeed.com and look at the openings. Associate attorney with experience 45K!

An attorney and I have an agreement that if were are both working in law past 60, we will jump out a window at the Wells Fargo building.

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masterpoaster (Apr 1, 2019 - 8:02 pm)

I went to UMN. Recession grad. Would not recommend to anyone unless you are comfortable making peanuts for hard, unfulfilling work, and having bigdebt. There are easier ways to make a buck and law is oversaturated, particularly in MN. Most of my classmates are okay now if they didn't wash out (a fair amount did). I had to leave the state to get a lawgig and am doing fine economically now, but at the expense of living far away from home, friends, and family, which is not what I initially wanted. (Wanted to stay and live in MN.)

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pisces213 (Apr 2, 2019 - 8:38 pm)

If she is a member of a minority, it's not that bad of an idea to try law school. Female lawyers, especially minority ones are relatively sought after even in the public sector. Ramsey County poached quite a few minority women public defenders a few years back. Sure there is a ceiling, but ceilings are nice when others have difficulty just getting their feet in.

You also have to remember that there are quite a few people who "come back" after going to Chicago or other more prestigious law schools and that you're competing with them for the sought-after positions. Your margin of error is pretty slim, especially if you are not from the area and don't have connections from previous generations. Obviously your margin is slimmer if you are a UST or a Hammitch grad. But UST's career office works rather hard and try to connect you with their undergrad alumni, and Hammitch has quite a few alumni in the public sector, so there's always a sliver of hope.

Many do end up with TR, and surprisingly many enjoy working there as there are perks and possibilities to transition as a JD+. There are also quite a few that end up outside the twin cities and constantly try to come back in, so a lot of positions will have insane amounts of competition. At least clerkship positions seem to be readily available if you are willing to move out a bit and have done somewhat decently in LS.
Rural Minnesota is a few decades back though. There'll be some culture shock as a female attorney after 3 years of LS, especially if she goes to the U.

Economy seems to be on the uptick as I am seeing some movement among my classmates, but then again you only hear about those that are successful or think they have finally made it.

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shithead (Apr 3, 2019 - 3:29 pm)

I've been a contractor at Thomson-Reuters out in Eagan, and it is a pleasant place to work. They swallow up a huge number of Twin Cities JDs after they give up on lawyer jobs.

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parlance (Apr 6, 2019 - 4:04 pm)

After a certain age, you stop thinking about whether or not your went to the right law school. I'm now 38 and didn't go to the U of M. But I've got problems that no law degree or law license can solve. You might as well fret about what kindergarten you didn't go to. Because after enough years go by, that's how much energy you're wasting.

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