Remembering TCPaul, 2016-2019

Watching Star Trek TOS for the first time

Finished the first season. Previously I'd only seen the reb whatnext08/17/18
It's a toss-up between TNG and DS9 as to which is better. T dingbat08/17/18
Yep TNG is good but the first two seasons were bad (esp the therewillbeblood08/18/18
DS9 is one of the best sci series of all time. TNG has some sillydood09/29/18
I am definitely gonna watch DS9, but is it alright to wait whatnext09/29/18
I'm partial to the original series because the ones that fol jeffm08/17/18
DS9 is worth watching. But voyager is bad. Haven’t seen en rastaman08/17/18
voyager gets better by the 4th season... which is a long way dingbat08/17/18
As good as the first season is, the third season is pretty m dingbat08/17/18
That's an interesting observation, I'll have to look out for whatnext08/17/18
DS9 is highly underated, and probably my favorite one. 3lol08/17/18
Just read Braga had nothing to do with it, so that's good. whatnext08/17/18
Voyager isn't all bad, it definitely has some good moments. 3lol08/17/18
As I understand it, there is a not insignificant amount of t whatnext08/17/18
TOS was old-school television at its best. Great characters chicagojoe08/18/18
TOS will always rank highest for me because when it came out onefortheteam08/18/18
in a ranking of best shows, it's really not fair to pit TOS dingbat08/18/18
Never watched TOS. I did watch TNG in law school because it jorgedeclaro08/18/18
The best Star Trek movie is Wrath of Khan. jeffm08/18/18
I can recognize it as objectively no great, but I'm partial superttthero08/19/18
if not the best, then the second best. Most of the movies dingbat08/19/18
... superttthero08/19/18
http://www.u-theopera.org/ dingbat08/19/18
DS9, the second two seasons of Enterprise, and Discovery are cargo08/20/18
I’ll admit, enterprise did get better later on, but too li dingbat08/20/18
It's interesting that a fictional show for boomer kids has m plumber08/20/18
the show wasn't for kids dingbat08/20/18
Who was it for? plumber09/17/18
It doesn't get much mention, but the the animated version ha bittersweet08/20/18
The antimated series was able to do some things that special dupednontraditional08/20/18
There was a writer's strike at the time, but it didn't cover dingbat08/20/18
Finished the second season - still great, with I guess what whatnext08/28/18
Spock's Brain is (sorta) legendary for how awful it is. Qui dingbat08/29/18
Yeah, TOS Season three had some clunkers. There were some s bittersweet08/29/18
Plus half the creative staff was one (or both) foot out of t dingbat08/29/18
Season 3 was a bit of a slog because of the lack of consiste whatnext09/15/18
I just finished season one of the original season last night frida209/16/18
I've had more luck getting my nine year old son to watch TOS dingbat09/16/18
Wesley sucks. I understand the fandom at the time despised whatnext09/16/18
If you're a kid watching a show called Star Trek, why would jackofspeed09/17/18
There were some brilliant ideas and some retarded ideas like diarrheaboy09/22/18
Started watching TOS after reading this thread and it’s gr turde09/29/18
Finished 1 and 2 of TNG. Quality wise, they were worse than whatnext09/29/18
The first two seasons of TNG have a lot of stinkers, but als dingbat09/29/18
Haha, I thought it was weird how they blatantly remade an ea whatnext09/29/18
The early TNG years were more like TOS season 3 - a lot of e dingbat09/29/18
I’m making my way through TOS and think the Trek fans who trickydick09/29/18
Took a bit of a break after binging so much, just watched Th whatnext12/31/18
I remember watching this show on a 13 inch CRT TV with rabbi imoothereforeim12/31/18
The special effects looked great back then too exnite01/01/19
Kirk was such a satyr. phosita01/02/19
Watched the TNG ep with an alien race where they all kill se whatnext01/15/19
Wrapping TNG up in the next couple days...last season isn't whatnext02/22/19
TNG season 7 was mostly really boring, some great eps notwit silk02/22/19
My daughter and I are still working on the 3rd season of TOS frida202/22/19
Make sure to check out this lesser seen TNG season 2 crossov silk02/22/19
THIS is the legendary Buck Bokai, greatest hitter ever and t whatnext02/27/19



whatnext (Aug 17, 2018 - 5:51 pm)

Finished the first season. Previously I'd only seen the reboot movies and was familiar with aspects of the various shows through cultural osmosis.

First impressions - it's as epic as the rabid fandom would lead you to believe. Since I'm an old school Who fan, I don't mind the sets or cheap alien suits. Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley almost immediately nail their characters and are all iconic. Even though I'd seen so much Kirk parody before ever seeing the show, Shatner's performance is still an all timer. Maybe it devolves into self-parody in the films? I was also impressed by the show's sense of humor. Had no idea how funny it could be at times. I also like that it stands for something, unlike Star Wars.

I'll watch TNG after finishing TOS. Are DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise worth watching? I know a lot of fans aren't fond of Berman and Braga's direction for the franchise. But if even DS9 and Voyager are worth it, that will probably take care of my binge watching through the first few months of 2019.

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dingbat (Aug 17, 2018 - 7:31 pm)

It's a toss-up between TNG and DS9 as to which is better. The first two seasons of TNG are fairly skippable, you really need to give it time.

Voyager is still good, but more of the same. If I start watching from TOS->TNG->DS9, fatigue sets in before I get much of voyager under way. It doesn't help that the first 3 seasons kinda suck, but from the 4th on it's pretty good.

Enterprise.... meh. You lose nothing by not watching it. You gain nothing by watching it.
Your time is better spent on the animated series. Due to a writer's strike on TV that didn't cover animation, the stories are by TOS veterans and overall very good, and it's also got all the main cast doing the voices

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therewillbeblood (Aug 18, 2018 - 6:15 pm)

Yep TNG is good but the first two seasons were bad (esp the first). I think Voyager got good about the same time that DS9 started sucking (when the dominion became a thing).

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sillydood (Sep 29, 2018 - 12:53 pm)

DS9 is one of the best sci series of all time. TNG has some amazing episodes but it has its share of duds, and it also took a while to find its stride. DS9 is more consistently good, hit its stride earlier, and tends to have longer story arcs.

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whatnext (Sep 29, 2018 - 1:06 pm)

I am definitely gonna watch DS9, but is it alright to wait until after I finish TNG or should it be watched concurrently like when they aired at the same time?

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jeffm (Aug 17, 2018 - 6:07 pm)

I'm partial to the original series because the ones that followed seemed to involve too much melodrama between the Enterprise's crew. They seem more like, "As the World Turns" in outer space. The original series seems more creative, as hokey as the sets and costumes are.

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rastaman (Aug 17, 2018 - 6:49 pm)

DS9 is worth watching. But voyager is bad. Haven’t seen enterprise.

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dingbat (Aug 17, 2018 - 7:32 pm)

voyager gets better by the 4th season... which is a long way away if you're plowing through from the start

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dingbat (Aug 17, 2018 - 7:20 pm)

As good as the first season is, the third season is pretty much a crap-fest. A few good episodes, but a lot of bad ones.

Take special note of Shatner - the worse the script, the more he hams it up.
He was always accused of overacting, but if you pay attention, he doesn't do that with the good scripts, and was a good enough actor to play it over the top on the bad ones, to distract from the lousy story.

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whatnext (Aug 17, 2018 - 11:37 pm)

That's an interesting observation, I'll have to look out for it. Now that you mention it, he was outstanding in eps like Balance of Terror, Arena and The Conscience of the King, and still great, but hammier, in stuff like Alternative Factor.

I'd enjoyed some of his later acting work and thought him to be very funny at times, especially in interviews, but I always figured he was just making fun of himself (which I guess he was a lot of the time). The only thing I'd seen him in from around the time of TOS was a Columbo episode where he was WAY over the top. I was struck by how good he was in TOS, and how great his range was. Capable of great timing and hilarious reaction shots, like when he gets sprayed by that flower. Genuinely funny not based on his reputation, but also good in the fight scenes or more dramatic moments.

It reminds me a lot of Connery's Bond, Falk's Columbo or Baker's Doctor, where everything they do, every movement is perfect for the role.

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3lol (Aug 17, 2018 - 10:51 pm)

DS9 is highly underated, and probably my favorite one.

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whatnext (Aug 17, 2018 - 11:23 pm)

Just read Braga had nothing to do with it, so that's good. Alan Sepinwall, my favorite tv critic, rates it as the best Star Trek show. So I'll definitely binge that one then. He also said Janeway sucks. Think I'll put aside Voyager for another year. dingbat's suggestion sounds very credited.

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3lol (Aug 17, 2018 - 11:33 pm)

Voyager isn't all bad, it definitely has some good moments. DS9 is more consistent, especially once the broader story arc starts to come together in the second season, and the characters are awesome.

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whatnext (Aug 17, 2018 - 11:42 pm)

As I understand it, there is a not insignificant amount of the fandom that thinks Sisko is the best and most capable Captain. I look forward to seeing that one, too, now.

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chicagojoe (Aug 18, 2018 - 11:26 am)

TOS was old-school television at its best. Great characters, a procedural-ish format that didn't really require any investment in ongoing storylines, and outstanding roles written for B-level guest actors. Star Trek basically combined the short story quality of The Twilight Zone with the reliable characters of something like Andy Griffith. And I miss the days when the cheapness of the sets and special effects could be overlooked on suspension of disbelief and not as part of some exercise in irony.

There's lots of things "peak TV" can do, but it can't replicate the charm of seasons 1-2 of TOS.

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onefortheteam (Aug 18, 2018 - 12:03 pm)

TOS will always rank highest for me because when it came out it was truly ground breaking. The shows that were playing at that time were stuff like Bonanza, Gilligan's Island, Hogan's Heroes, the Beverly Hillbillies, etc. Though it seems dated and campy today, in its day it was in a class of its own. Requires a bit more imagination and sheer guts to put something out like that. Also I'm positive it helped to inspire the next generation of doctors, scientists, astronauts, and Engineers; it was a net benefit for society.

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dingbat (Aug 18, 2018 - 2:49 pm)

in a ranking of best shows, it's really not fair to pit TOS against the others, due to the nature of the show and the time. It really is a different beast. TAS is a nice companion piece. It's better than it has any right to be, but not necessary watching. Except for Yesteryear. Definitely watch Yesteryear.

Of the other shows, TNG/DS9 are very much dependent on personal tastes. TNG was all standalone episodes, while DS9 was ahead of its time in having season-long story arcs. DS9 also benefited from the differences it had with TNG. In some respects TNG is better, in other respects, DS9.

Voyager is pretty weak compared to the other two. Still a decent show, especially the later seasons where they found their footing, but not on the same level as the rest. If you like TOS, definitely watch "The Thaw", which is the most TOS-like episode of all the later series combined.

Enterprise.... sucks. There's no denying it's the weakest of the bunch. I could see how they were trying to create a bit of a TOS vibe, but that doesn't work in the modern era. Everything from the intro music to the suits is a disaster. On one hand they were trying to pay homage to modern lore and a lot of episodes were written with that in mind. On the other hand they were beholden by other series and a lot of episodes are hampered by it. It tried to be too many things, and none of it quite works. It's ok to watch, but you're gonna be disappointed. Instead, just watch Quantum Leap, to see Scott Bakula's best work

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jorgedeclaro (Aug 18, 2018 - 10:15 pm)

Never watched TOS. I did watch TNG in law school because it was one of the Justin.TV streams that was consistently never taken down. I like TNG. Of course, I remember going to the drive in with my dad when I was you and seeing Nemesis and really enjoying it would effectively zero previous Star Trek experience. Cool to see Tom Hardy before he became famous a decade later.

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jeffm (Aug 18, 2018 - 11:33 pm)

The best Star Trek movie is Wrath of Khan.

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superttthero (Aug 19, 2018 - 7:15 am)

I can recognize it as objectively no great, but I'm partial to The Undiscovered Country. Maybe it was the battle at khitomer. Maybe that it was on hbo like every week when I was a kid.

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dingbat (Aug 19, 2018 - 1:50 pm)

if not the best, then the second best.

Most of the movies are garbage, but those two are great (IV is a good movie, but has a whole slew of issues)

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superttthero (Aug 19, 2018 - 6:12 pm)

...



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dingbat (Aug 19, 2018 - 6:28 pm)

http://www.u-theopera.org/

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cargo (Aug 20, 2018 - 10:03 am)

DS9, the second two seasons of Enterprise, and Discovery are all fantastic

TNG is also must watch but in different ways. It set the standard for what a starship captain is supposed to be. Much of Voyager's and the first half of Enterprise's weakness is that they tried too hard to give off a Picard & Co vibe. (DS9, Discovery, and Enterprise seasons 3-4 went in a different direction that were better fits for Netflix style watching.)

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dingbat (Aug 20, 2018 - 2:17 pm)

I’ll admit, enterprise did get better later on, but too little too late. Seasons 3&4 aren’t good, they’re just not complete trash like the first two seasons.

Not one episode of Enterprise would/should ever rank in the top 100 Star Trek episodes (I believe there are 744 in total)

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plumber (Aug 20, 2018 - 2:37 pm)

It's interesting that a fictional show for boomer kids has modern day adults with higher educations talking about it 50 years later. Imagine if you traveled back in time to 1967 and told some 38 year old adult. They would probably laugh and wouldn't believe it.

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dingbat (Aug 20, 2018 - 7:48 pm)

the show wasn't for kids

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plumber (Sep 17, 2018 - 2:27 pm)

Who was it for?

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bittersweet (Aug 20, 2018 - 3:29 pm)

It doesn't get much mention, but the the animated version had some real good stuff too. Like any series, there are some clunkers, but there are some real good ones in there.

If you are going for chronological order, you should do that before Next Gen.

After the original, DS9 is my favorite. It's much more plot/story driven and serial than each of the prior series.

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dupednontraditional (Aug 20, 2018 - 4:54 pm)

The antimated series was able to do some things that special effects weren’t able to do as well at the time - variety of aliens, cool spacecraft designs, plus I liked where Spock met his younger self on Vulcan. Kind of the inspiration for the later movie reboot, I think.

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dingbat (Aug 20, 2018 - 7:54 pm)

There was a writer's strike at the time, but it didn't cover animation. So the show had writers from the original series, like Samuel Peeples (where No Man Has Gone Before), David Gerrold (trouble with Tribbles), Paul Schneider (Squire of Gothos), and DC Fontana (Journey to Babel).

The writing was as good as the best of TOS, and certainly better than Season 3, when they couldn't afford good writers.
The animation is terrible, just like everything made by filmation, but because it was all drawn, there were some great possibilities, like Arex.

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whatnext (Aug 28, 2018 - 10:49 pm)

Finished the second season - still great, with I guess what are some of the more iconic episodes, but the cracks started to show. Three eps where a Federation captain or member goes rogue and interferes with civilization on a planet. Three episodes with a vague cloud of energy that they don't know how to defeat. But very entertaining. That proposed spinoff would have been interesting. Reminded me a lot of Doctor Who, right down to the device that was exactly like a sonic screwdriver, and I'm a big Teri Garr fan.

Just finished the first episode of season 3, Spock's Brain - holy smokes was it bad. Easily the worst I've seen thus far. Guess I better buckle in for the crap.

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dingbat (Aug 29, 2018 - 12:58 pm)

Spock's Brain is (sorta) legendary for how awful it is. Quite possibly the worst single episode of any sci fi show ever created

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bittersweet (Aug 29, 2018 - 12:57 pm)

Yeah, TOS Season three had some clunkers. There were some significant issues with budgets, production and network support. But there are some really good ones in there -Tholian Web and All Our Yesterdays come to mind. Enjoy!

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dingbat (Aug 29, 2018 - 7:36 pm)

Plus half the creative staff was one (or both) foot out of the door. Including gene Roddenberry

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whatnext (Sep 15, 2018 - 9:50 pm)

Season 3 was a bit of a slog because of the lack of consistency, but I at least liked and in some cases really liked almost half of them

Ones I liked - The Enterprise Incident (very good), Specter of the Gun, Day of the Dove, Tholian Web, Plato's Stepchildren, Elaan of Troyius, Whom Gods Destroy, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, Requiem for Methuselah, The Savage Curtain, All Our Yesterdays.

Lincoln teaming up with Kirk to fight a Klingon and other bad guys is just a hilarious idea.

A few others had some good ideas, but couldn't fill out 50 minutes. At least the Space Hippies were good for a few laughs, and it's interesting as a time capsule to see how older, pre WW2 born writers viewed the upheaval of the era. Also funny to learn that the most famous trial attorney of his day appeared as a villain in one episode.

Others were just flat out terrible (Spock's Brain, Turnabout Intruder, Lights of Zetar).

Glad to have erased this pop culture blindspot, though. Well worth the watch. On to The Next Generation.

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frida2 (Sep 16, 2018 - 12:54 pm)

I just finished season one of the original season last night, with my nine year old daughter. She loves it. I think it is great and haven't watched since I was a kid when it was on TV a lot as reruns in the 70s and 80s. I agree there are some crappy episodes, but it absolutely deserves all the hype and its place in history.

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dingbat (Sep 16, 2018 - 10:06 pm)

I've had more luck getting my nine year old son to watch TOS and TAS than any of the later series

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whatnext (Sep 16, 2018 - 10:24 pm)

Wesley sucks. I understand the fandom at the time despised him?

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jackofspeed (Sep 17, 2018 - 1:36 pm)

If you're a kid watching a show called Star Trek, why would you want to see a "view-point character" anywhere near your age?

The adults on the show are models of behavior and excellence (even Lt. Reginald Barclay-holodeck addict-was competent in public, and near brilliant in his area of expertise.)

Just as with the families living on the Federation Flagship, it was an idea that rarely made for compelling stories.

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diarrheaboy (Sep 22, 2018 - 3:33 am)

There were some brilliant ideas and some retarded ideas like families living on a flagship as mentioned. Something else was the first appearance of the romulans in TNG with a massive a spaceship that was easily 30x the size of a tiny enterprise thus implying that the romulans technology was that much superior..then fast forward to every other episode and the space ship is normal size???

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turde (Sep 29, 2018 - 11:13 am)

Started watching TOS after reading this thread and it’s great. TBH season 3 is (mostly) not as bad as some people claim.

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whatnext (Sep 29, 2018 - 11:27 am)

Finished 1 and 2 of TNG. Quality wise, they were worse than season 3 of TOS. The tar monster episode was embarrassing. I read the last episode of season 2 was a bad clip show, so I didn't even bother with it. Still, more than enough to keep me watching.

I LOVED Q Who. I got the feeling while watching it that if it was TOS, Shatner would have demanded Kirk be able to figure out a way to save the day, but Stewart is a confident enough actor that he realizes his character looks better by being so vulnerable against a new threat. I've watched that last 10 minutes several times. "If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you oughta go back home and crawl under your bed." One of the best sci-fi episodes I've seen.

I also liked Dr. Pulaski, which I guess makes me in the minority.

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dingbat (Sep 29, 2018 - 7:23 pm)

The first two seasons of TNG have a lot of stinkers, but also a lot of quality. The good/great episodes give you the motivation to plow through the crap (especially the second and third episodes of the first season - a veritable 1-2 punch of a crap fest)

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whatnext (Sep 29, 2018 - 8:13 pm)

Haha, I thought it was weird how they blatantly remade an early TOS episode for their second entry.

And the third episode with the African planet...well I thought the fight scene was interesting.

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dingbat (Sep 29, 2018 - 8:54 pm)

The early TNG years were more like TOS season 3 - a lot of episodes that everyone involved should be embarrassed about (except Shatner, because Shatner), but a few amazing episodes that every viewer remembers fondly. THG got much better later on

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trickydick (Sep 29, 2018 - 9:33 pm)

I’m making my way through TOS and think the Trek fans who love TNG and DS9 but refuse to watch a single episode of TOS are missing out. TOS may have been low budget, cheesy, and hammy, but it perfectly captures the two core elements of the franchise, the idea of a utopian future for humanity and the sense of adventure that harkens back to old movie serials and dime store novels. You can’t really appreciate these elements until you see them in their raw unfiltered forms on TOS.

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whatnext (Dec 31, 2018 - 4:48 pm)

Took a bit of a break after binging so much, just watched The Best of Both Worlds and Family. Both brilliant in completely different ways. What a show that could follow the former up with the latter.

The Borg was dealt with a little too easily I guess, but it was still very exciting.

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imoothereforeim (Dec 31, 2018 - 9:18 pm)

I remember watching this show on a 13 inch CRT TV with rabbit ear antenna. Good times.

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exnite (Jan 1, 2019 - 10:23 pm)

The special effects looked great back then too

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phosita (Jan 2, 2019 - 10:06 am)

Kirk was such a satyr.

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whatnext (Jan 15, 2019 - 9:35 am)

Watched the TNG ep with an alien race where they all kill self upon turning 60. Sounds like Utopia!

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whatnext (Feb 22, 2019 - 7:39 pm)

Wrapping TNG up in the next couple days...last season isn't so bad, but there has been some crap lately. Crusher banging a ghost, Data wearing a mask, and now Worf and Troi infected by some lizard monster. Oof. Pegasus and Lower Decks were pretty awesome though.

Oh, and there was an episode at some point where Wesley got to hook up with Ashley Judd and that just pissed me off.

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silk (Feb 22, 2019 - 9:15 pm)

TNG season 7 was mostly really boring, some great eps notwithstanding.

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frida2 (Feb 22, 2019 - 8:42 pm)

My daughter and I are still working on the 3rd season of TOS. The 3rd season is probably the worst, and the 2nd season the best. She's been watching the animated series on her own (which I really didn't watch as a kid).

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silk (Feb 22, 2019 - 9:11 pm)

Make sure to check out this lesser seen TNG season 2 crossover with Webster (Gary Coleman 2.0): https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4fiqhj

notes:
1) this is real
2) there seems to be nothing to make it non-canon
3) more support for being canon: it’s a clip show for Webster and the only Star Trek clip show is also in TNG season 2



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whatnext (Feb 27, 2019 - 9:31 am)

THIS is the legendary Buck Bokai, greatest hitter ever and the one who broke DiMaggio’s streak?



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