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Court ordered DNA

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/09/us/a rizona-woman-vegetative-s fettywap01/09/19
The police can ask, then cannot force. The men absolutely ha admin01/09/19
No. The police got search warrants to force the men who refu fettywap01/09/19
Warrant requires probable cause I agree they shouldn't be ab anotherjd01/09/19
Would need a search warrant. Refusal to consent to search ca jorgedeclaro01/09/19
Sounds like it must have been fairly rubber stampy. Patient whatnext01/09/19
If 3 men came in contact with her, can you tell me how all 3 superttthero01/09/19
If you can narrow it down to just three guys and can show th whatnext01/09/19
That’s not even individualized suspicion. That’s like go jorgedeclaro01/09/19
Im not saying refusal of a private search is probable cause anotherjd01/09/19
On netflix the cops follow the suspects around and pick up t persius01/09/19
This is my favorite blatantly illegal DNA collection techniq whatnext01/09/19
You guys are pro crime gladigotaphdinstead01/09/19
Maybe the CNN article is wrong. I found another article that fettywap01/09/19
fettywap (Jan 9, 2019 - 7:03 pm)

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/09/us/arizona-woman-vegetative-state-gives-birth/index.html

How is it legal for the court to force men to give DNA samples just because they work at a place where a crime was likely committed? Anyone could have impregnated this woman. It wasn't necessarily an employee. Why is this massive fishing expedition legal?

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admin (Jan 9, 2019 - 7:31 pm)

The police can ask, then cannot force. The men absolutely have the option to not provide it. But not cooperating will be a red flag.

My guess is they will be looking at the all men that came into contact with her, whether they work at the facility or not.

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fettywap (Jan 9, 2019 - 7:34 pm)

No. The police got search warrants to force the men who refused to give DNa samples. I guess they can hire a lawyer to explain to the judge why he can't force them, but I was surprised they got warrants to begin with. I would imagine the one who did it doesn't work there anymore.

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anotherjd (Jan 9, 2019 - 7:40 pm)

Warrant requires probable cause I agree they shouldn't be able to force everyone to give DNA.

The company could seemingly demand it if not an agent of state. The cops could then focus on who refuses.

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jorgedeclaro (Jan 9, 2019 - 7:45 pm)

Would need a search warrant. Refusal to consent to search cannot be a basis for establishing probable cause. The investigators would have needed probable cause for each warrant.

This is all premised on the Arizona court or magistrate not being rubber stampy.

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whatnext (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:04 pm)

Sounds like it must have been fairly rubber stampy. Patient can't go anywhere, patient got knocked up, most likely by someone who works there, so police should be able to get a warrant for *everyone's* DNA based on that.

You'd think there'd be charts and schedules and maybe even surveillance footage they could go through first to at least narrow things down or rule people out.

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superttthero (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:26 pm)

If 3 men came in contact with her, can you tell me how all 3 meet the probable cause standard?

Its fishing.

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whatnext (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:35 pm)

If you can narrow it down to just three guys and can show they all had contact with her within a certain period where pregnancy was likely to occur, it's a slam dunk to get warrants for all three based on the circumstances. They don't have to come up with "here's why we think A might have done it, here's why we think B might have done it, here's why we think C might have done it."

Getting warrants for everyone who works there (which is what the article leads me to believe is what happened) based on a crime being committed? That's too wide a net unless it's a rubber stamp.

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jorgedeclaro (Jan 9, 2019 - 9:25 pm)

That’s not even individualized suspicion. That’s like going to Compton and doing stop and frisk. You’re more likely to stop someone with a gun or drugs, but you don’t have anything individually against all of the workers.

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anotherjd (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:44 pm)

Im not saying refusal of a private search is probable cause for a warrant. Im saying cops could start investigating the ones that refuse.

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persius (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:17 pm)

On netflix the cops follow the suspects around and pick up their used cigarette bud or pull a used coffee cup out of the trash to extract dna. I am sure they will get it from any holdouts regardless.

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whatnext (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:20 pm)

This is my favorite blatantly illegal DNA collection technique

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyK4R8QlhBo

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gladigotaphdinstead (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:19 pm)

You guys are pro crime

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fettywap (Jan 9, 2019 - 8:44 pm)

Maybe the CNN article is wrong. I found another article that says Thompson says they will get court orders for everyone who won't provide a sample.

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