Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Can a 30-year-old live a decent life on $40k/year?

A small debate between a friend and I. Obviously anyone can rubberduck02/01/19
I wish I made that much when I was 30 haha. Never had tha cowgod02/01/19
Yeah but that was voluntary. We had sameguy income in 2010. bigwags02/02/19
maybe if they are unmarried and have no ambition gladigotaphdinstead02/01/19
haha cowgod02/01/19
you mean have no kids and/or a pothead trijocker02/02/19
Not really. I used to make more and my rent was about that m fettywap02/02/19
After taxes? Yes unless you're greedy materialistic slobs anotherjd02/02/19
Yea without a doubt. They are going to need to skimp on the thirdtierlaw02/02/19
I like you say not having roommates is a decent life, but "w tuliotanaka02/02/19
excellent mental illness whiteguyinchina02/02/19
lol jeffm02/02/19
Who hurt you? bcls02/02/19
I had a lot spelling usage errors in that post since it was tuliotanaka02/02/19
this read like tolstoy's "death of Ivan illich" only much wo whiteguyinchina02/02/19
Solid piece of literature drglennrichie02/02/19
It got boring really fast. I’m positive there was nothing gladigotaphdinstead02/02/19
Geese....take some happy pills. cocolawyer02/05/19
Where would you find a rental for 900 a month? If the rent trijocker02/02/19
In flyoverstan, you can have a great life like this. If you thecharmingmresq02/02/19
Right. When you are in the middle of a large city, it doesn jeffm02/02/19
How's Hockley? commode02/02/19
Growing. jeffm02/02/19
This is literally the equivalent to what ~middle class Europ theimmigrant02/02/19
Salary statistics are annoying to make sense out of because normshow02/02/19
Normshow — always appearing after a thread is aged to perf theimmigrant02/02/19
yea i should get better at my thread posting choices, i am t normshow02/02/19
In their social strata, status is determined by dick size mo theimmigrant02/02/19
According to this graph: https://dqydj.com/income-percent normshow02/03/19
Yeah and averages are still useless imo. Like greenday75 mak theimmigrant02/03/19
Yes vespucius02/04/19
$30k/year ($2500/month) after taxes is definitely a livable catwoman33302/04/19
Are you a Woman? Excellent post. theimmigrant02/05/19
"The average SS monthly check amount is $2,687" Whoa th wutwutwut02/05/19
She is not your partner. Knock it off. I won't have another theimmigrant02/05/19
Sorry, meant to write "Pardner" as in oald westerns. But wutwutwut02/05/19
@theimmigrant, as much as I appreciate your well-intended "c catwoman33302/08/19
Isn't the maximum Social Security check now about $2600? How fettywap02/05/19
The amount received is based on age at retirement and earnin catwoman33302/08/19
Where I live in flyoverstan you can get a very nice 2 bedroo eagleton02/05/19
How many confederate flags do you see on a weekly basis? tuliotanaka02/06/19
Weekly? Less than one. Most people who fly confederate flags eagleton02/06/19
Scumbags with that flag live in places where you can find a tuliotanaka02/07/19
NOPE lucapacioli02/07/19
40k gross is over 150% of the federal poverty line for a fam onehell02/07/19
Back in 2011, a Wall Street trader told me that we were livi parlance02/07/19
This is very correct. My theory is that the post-WWII boom y onehell02/08/19
That's how a loser living with mommy spins it im sure. anotherjd02/08/19
IMO, the REAL losers are those who live with a completely fa catwoman33302/09/19
It depends how good looking you are, how tall you are, and h gforce8802/10/19



rubberduck (Feb 1, 2019 - 10:04 pm)

A small debate between a friend and I. Obviously anyone can live on almost any income level if they absolutely had to — even if they have to use various forms of welfare to survive — but I’m talking about a decent life here. Decent as in not having 3 roommates, not eating ramen every day, actually getting your bills paid, and having a little extra for fun, savings, and investments. The money is pretax too, so maybe $30,000 after taxes.

We’ll say the individual is 30 years old, single but would like to have a family one day, $30k student loan debt, and lives in an area where the average 1 bed/1 bath apartment is about $900 per month.

I would say probably not.

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cowgod (Feb 1, 2019 - 11:31 pm)

I wish I made that much when I was 30 haha.

Never had that much student loan debt, tho.

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bigwags (Feb 2, 2019 - 12:40 pm)

Yeah but that was voluntary. We had sameguy income in 2010.

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gladigotaphdinstead (Feb 1, 2019 - 11:37 pm)

maybe if they are unmarried and have no ambition

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cowgod (Feb 1, 2019 - 11:41 pm)

haha

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trijocker (Feb 2, 2019 - 12:07 pm)

you mean have no kids and/or a pothead

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fettywap (Feb 2, 2019 - 1:26 am)

Not really. I used to make more and my rent was about that much. I was always freaking out about money.

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anotherjd (Feb 2, 2019 - 2:54 am)

After taxes? Yes unless you're greedy materialistic slobs

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thirdtierlaw (Feb 2, 2019 - 7:19 am)

Yea without a doubt. They are going to need to skimp on the investments, but they certainly can.

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tuliotanaka (Feb 2, 2019 - 7:33 am)

I like you say not having roommates is a decent life, but "would like to have a family one day".

Let me tell you what a family(ie kids) are. Roommates who dont pay rent. Roommates you have to clean up after. Roommates you have feed. Roommates you have to clothe. Roommates you have to help with homework. Roommates you have to develop. Roommates who will embarrass you with a tantrum in front of your friends, at the supermarket, at the restaurant, at the movies.

Why do you do it? Because you didnt want to wear a condom that one time, or because your partner felt she had to satisfy her parents, or because you felt the relationship ending and grabbed out in hope at the one thing you though would keep it alive. Of course she resents you. She had your kid, but you would never be good enough for her. You dont have the big house her sister's friends' cousin has. Your son has your weird quirks, and she hates that. You took her career from her. She had to give up on that promising administrative assistant role that would have took her to the top when she chose(and she will remind you of this fact every chance she gets) to give you a son. She stays home, gets fat, and stops cooking before eventually having to return to work as a cashier or another demeaning admin assistant role if shes lucky. Perhaps she sees a guy she went to college with, or who was a young upstart at her previous company, and begins to wonder what her life could have been if she chose him instead of you. The resentment simmers in her for the rest of your(yes, yours. She will outlive you) life.

You remember that roommate of yours who doesnt pay rent? Well dont forget he is the impressionable mind living through all of this. So when he's screwed up in the future a therapist paying off her 300k student loans in the future will make sure he knows its your fault for how messed up he became. He'll proceed to not visit you except on holidays if you are lucky, or mooch off of you until hes 40 if you arent. Either way it will always be your fault because "I didnt ask to be born!". You'll probably drop dead in the office since you will have to continue to work to maintain the lifestyle creep that your family forced upon you since heaven forbid your kids dont have the newest Jordans, or your wife does not have a new(used) Cadillac Escalade every 2 years with which to drive to her weekly starbucks brunches with her old college friends. You'll have a funeral where they all talk about how much you "loved your family", and then your wife will begin to use your memory to browbeat your son(s) about how they will never live up to the life you provided, knowing darn well she hated you as much as they did, and that the materialism you gave your life to provide them would never feel the empty void in their heart that comes from the uselessness of it all. They will drop her in a home(no doubt paid for by what is left of your money they went to town with) until she dies. Then they will all come together and say "Mom and Dad sure loved each other." while carrying the resentment until it is consigned to oblivion...usually when he dies.

This the good life you are talking about? Your American dream of working to give your money away?

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whiteguyinchina (Feb 2, 2019 - 9:21 am)

excellent mental illness

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jeffm (Feb 2, 2019 - 9:51 am)

lol

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bcls (Feb 2, 2019 - 11:11 am)

Who hurt you?

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tuliotanaka (Feb 2, 2019 - 11:23 am)

I had a lot spelling usage errors in that post since it was early morning. Wish I could edit those :)

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whiteguyinchina (Feb 2, 2019 - 12:58 pm)

this read like tolstoy's "death of Ivan illich" only much worse.

I hope u find piece.

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drglennrichie (Feb 2, 2019 - 5:48 pm)

Solid piece of literature

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gladigotaphdinstead (Feb 2, 2019 - 6:33 pm)

It got boring really fast. I’m positive there was nothing further to glean from it beyond what had already been gleaned from the first 2 paragraphs.

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cocolawyer (Feb 5, 2019 - 4:46 pm)

Geese....take some happy pills.

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trijocker (Feb 2, 2019 - 9:23 am)

Where would you find a rental for 900 a month?
If the rent was that cheap, there probably isn't much job opportunity.
So if you are making 30000 a year and paying 900 a month, with that wage you probably work for the county or state government. Therefore, you are pretty much reconciling yourself to a life of no upward mobility. The reason people move to urban areas, even with roomies, is to better themselves and have decent job opportunities. Also, once people get to the urban area they also develop likes for say good restaurants, vibrant downtowns, good music, cultural and sports events. I am picturing that a job like that would be somewhere in the south, where you could get a place for 900 a month, say Tuscaloosa, Alabama. You can ask yourself whether you would like to live like that. Personally, for me, because I grew up in a city and lived most of my life in California, I would not like to live in an area like that, but it is a personal choice.

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thecharmingmresq (Feb 2, 2019 - 10:26 am)

In flyoverstan, you can have a great life like this. If you have a teaching/state job that’s low stress and you have likeable coworkers, I might go so far as to call this a 7/10.

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jeffm (Feb 2, 2019 - 10:32 am)

Right. When you are in the middle of a large city, it doesn't matter whether people are flying over you or not. I think a lot of people just desire to live where they were raised. I know I do.

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commode (Feb 2, 2019 - 10:41 am)

How's Hockley?

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jeffm (Feb 2, 2019 - 1:09 pm)

Growing.

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theimmigrant (Feb 2, 2019 - 11:02 am)

This is literally the equivalent to what ~middle class Europeans have to live on. Like Engineers who ace OCI making like 41k Euros starting, 55k Euros Ending and life goes on. The only aspect where you'll get pwn3d in practical terms is with regard to housing, education, and retirement/savings. So your class/caste will be signalled by living in Bad places and if you have immense student loans or want to save for someone else's education, you'll be pwned. Other than that it's alright. There are millions of proles who dream of making $20/hr someday who make like $13.99/hr minus Overtime Theft etc. I made $19k during ITE.

Liberals (such as myself) overestimate COL and are always making half-hearted appeals to egalitarianism, or bashing "billionaires" whom, if taxed at 100%, would pay for like, a few fighter jets at most. Meanwhile prole white conservatives make like $39k and call it "good money" and don't care.

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normshow (Feb 2, 2019 - 1:07 pm)

Salary statistics are annoying to make sense out of because there are so many factors to consider and unemployment/salary statistics generally hide the real story.

Average salary of 25-34 year olds is $41k

Average student loan debt of 30-year olds is $24k.

Average net worth of 30-year olds is -$2k.

Official unemployment rate of 25-34 year olds is ~4%, BUT

Employment rate of 30 year olds is closer to ~70%.

I interpret all of this to mean that it is very common to live a reasonable, modest lifestyle on a $40k salary, but you have to get serious about your priorities. Despite certain statistics, many people are living on less than that. I guess you have to decide if you think that >40% of the population is depressed about their living situation, but I don't think so.

Many 30-year-olds who make above the average have less than $0 in savings, probably due to irresponsible spending decisions combined with student loans. People tend to spend every last dollar regardless of salary. Simply looking at the average salary/unemployment would imply that 96% of millenials are employed (and 1/2 make at least $40k). If $40k isn't enough, how much do you need? $60k? Most 30-year olds are living on much less than that. Many people lie about their status: "fake it till you make it."

I hate that people are still saying "eating ramen every day." Groceries, fresh chicken, fresh vegetables are NOT EXPENSIVE. Anyone with a poor diet is basically self-caused and I am tired of the excuses.

I'd love to figure out what the alcohol $$ statistics are. I bet a whole lot of 30-year olds spend more than $1,000/yr on alcohol.

EDIT: wrong age group for employment statistics, my bad.

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theimmigrant (Feb 2, 2019 - 1:34 pm)

Normshow — always appearing after a thread is aged to perfection with a score of replies to state facts; thread dies shortly thereafter. Height: 6`00``+. Income: Unposted.

Anyway, as the condition of the working class has eroded and Castes/Cliques have calcified over the decades, I am hesitant to even look at averages, however accurate, as being of any use. Like you basically aren't even part of the first world unless you ace OCI or job interviews or get lucky somehow imho. Nobody looked at "averages" in pre-war times. Average is only Adequate in terms of Boomer outcomes, basically every other human being needs to be an exception in order to avoid ignominy. Just stating opinions, and could never dream of having all 3 video game consoles in a given generation or having NFL sunday ticket.

Also, just for easy figuring, GDP per capita is only like $50k or $60k, and GDP is inflated af, so there is an unholy ****load of poors for whom every measurable metric is ruinous, whether it be Income/GPA/SAT or whatever. If you're making $50k you are, in the words of BL, "fine" in this sense, but still ignominious in the sense that because of entropy, like 10 million people make/have a lot more than you because "reasons" and that as a result, you can barely buy Cars or live in desirable locales.

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normshow (Feb 2, 2019 - 1:42 pm)

yea i should get better at my thread posting choices, i am the Destroyer of threads.

I will look into whether or not the Labor Bureau of Statistics plans to start categorizing statistics by Clique.

Nerds are probably bimodal with 50% making $0 and 50% averaging $75k+, but it is impossible to receive statistics on because of the deliberate conflation of Nerds and Losers that is pushed in the media.

Although I don't think certain outcomes are necessarily perceived as ruinous, because many Scumbags making $20k/yr may be viewed as ignominous by the Coastal Elites, but they could be kings within their own social stratum, which is more important for determining the decent life. GDP includes government spending which means it is essentially useless as a statistic, except for comparing nations to each other.

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theimmigrant (Feb 2, 2019 - 9:28 pm)

In their social strata, status is determined by dick size moreso than anything. Scumbags just don't have the same values as UMC idiots. "If I check all of these boxes and jump through these hoops, I can be some Boomer's slave and live in a 2,100 square foot, $1mm house!" doesn't resonate with them. They can barely behave their way through high school, let alone a prestigious Job Interview. They care about money in that it enables them to show off. UMC are the opposite - they want to basically do things that they hate so that they can have the privilege of being UMC, in and of itself. How else can you even explain the existence of Dentists?

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normshow (Feb 3, 2019 - 11:09 am)

According to this graph:

https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-by-age-calculator/

Among 30 year olds, there is a sharp increase starting at the 95 percentile. The average at 95 percentile is $112k, and the average at 99 percentile is $246k. Certainly those are almost all Preps, with the occasional Nerd/Jock sprinkled in, and maybe 1-2 lucky Scumbags who own trucking companies.

It will be impossible to understand the real income statistics until we find out what % of the population fits into each Clique, and then we can graph statistics by Clique. Maybe Preps are only 5% of the population, but their average income is at least $50k higher than other Cliques. If we subtracted out Preps, the average salary among 30-year olds probably drops to like $25k.

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theimmigrant (Feb 3, 2019 - 2:17 pm)

Yeah and averages are still useless imo. Like greenday75 makes infinite money because of "reasons," you can't compare that with Farbman making $90k, it just doesn't make sense. There are Castes that need to be reinforced dammit. You don't compare the numbers directly, and it's not a "sliding scale" or any of that bs. There is a STRICT stratification. Like how do you even begin to try to average things out when STRICT business models require attorneys at Firms numbering 20 Attorneys or less to make as little as possible and for biglawyers or greenday75 to make $200k+++? Basically any corporate job-haver makes $40k at the absolute minimum, but there are weird evil mom & pops that will pay as close to nothing as possible (minus overtime theft) and don't have STRICT job interviews or phenotype assessments. Then you have retail or food service people who somehow number in the tens of millions, all making Nothing, but Chick-fil-a pays like $.50 more an hour than Taco Bell and has better service/phenotypes. So you have a vanishingly small number of people making exactly $50k or whatever, but Roosh is definitely one of them based on that hack a while back. Sooooo yeah.

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vespucius (Feb 4, 2019 - 6:59 pm)

Yes

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catwoman333 (Feb 4, 2019 - 9:53 pm)

$30k/year ($2500/month) after taxes is definitely a livable wage. In fact, MILLIONS of Americans do it all the time, esp. the long-term unemployed or retired Americans with little to no life savings (The average SS monthly check amount is $2,687.)

Obviously, that modest salary would preclude living in large, expensive cities where the avg. housing cost alone far exceeds that income. But if you live in a small-med. size town, where an efficiency or 1-bedroom apt. could be found for $900/month or less, I don't see why anyone COULDN'T afford to live--of course, paycheck to paycheck--on that income. Half the salary would easily go to housing, food, utilities/gas/transportation. Another quarter $625 would go to health insurance premiums and out of pocket expenses. The remaining Q could be earmarked for savings, investments. You don't define "extra fun". If you mean an occasional movie (say, once a month), you could probably squeeze that in.

You mention $30k in student loan debt. Don't know how much the monthly payments are, so I didn't include that in the budget. But I notice the SL debt balance equals a year's salary, so I would strongly suggest living at home (with parents or other family members) for a year (if possible) to quickly pay it off entirely and to get that big monkey off your back.

And, the horizon DRAMATICALLY brightens if you consider working/living abroad, where you can live like a queen/king in a smaller country (including Europe) for a fraction of the cost of living (COL) in most US cities/towns. In fact, I plan to retire overseas because I realize that the COL in the US is obscenely high and unlikely to return to earth any time soon or even in my lifetime....:-).

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theimmigrant (Feb 5, 2019 - 7:39 am)

Are you a Woman? Excellent post.

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wutwutwut (Feb 5, 2019 - 8:13 am)

"The average SS monthly check amount is $2,687"


Whoa there, Partner.

The average is less than half that, closer to $1300.

The number you recite looks more like a recent year's maximum.

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theimmigrant (Feb 5, 2019 - 8:16 am)

She is not your partner. Knock it off. I won't have another female poster ran off like this by you, wutwutwut.

—TI

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wutwutwut (Feb 5, 2019 - 12:14 pm)

Sorry, meant to write "Pardner" as in oald westerns.

But I'm not the guy who runs off female posters...

And I do agree a person can live readily on 30K post-tax.

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catwoman333 (Feb 8, 2019 - 12:07 am)

@theimmigrant, as much as I appreciate your well-intended "chivalry?", rest assured that I am quite able to speak for myself on this board, thank you.

I was not "offended" or intimidated ("run off"). In fact, I find many of wutwutwut's--and others' comments--quaintly hilarious and not ill-intended. Overall, I think most people on this board are just trying to blow-off steam and entertain themselves after a grueling day in the Legal Grind. In other words, this board is just a form of "free therapy," should not be taken too seriously..:-).

That aside, wutwutwut, you are indeed correct in stating that the SS # I quoted is too low, closer to avg. MAXIMUM FULL RETIREMENT amount, not the average OVERALL figure (which would include both lower early retirement and full retirement payment levels). Apologies for not clarifying that in my original post.

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fettywap (Feb 5, 2019 - 10:19 am)

Isn't the maximum Social Security check now about $2600? How much do you all think Social Security pays?

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catwoman333 (Feb 8, 2019 - 12:39 am)

The amount received is based on age at retirement and earnings history. That's about right for the maximum someone can get if they worked steadily, paid SS taxes, and waited until age 66 or 67 to retire.

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eagleton (Feb 5, 2019 - 5:23 pm)

Where I live in flyoverstan you can get a very nice 2 bedroom house for 700 a month and 1 bedroom for like 5-600. Half that for less nice accommodations

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tuliotanaka (Feb 6, 2019 - 4:39 pm)

How many confederate flags do you see on a weekly basis?

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eagleton (Feb 6, 2019 - 5:02 pm)

Weekly? Less than one. Most people who fly confederate flags here also fly an American flag next to it. Please interpret for me

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tuliotanaka (Feb 7, 2019 - 6:38 pm)

Scumbags with that flag live in places where you can find a place for 5-600 bucks.

Not anywhere an Educated person would live.

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lucapacioli (Feb 7, 2019 - 1:41 pm)

NOPE

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onehell (Feb 7, 2019 - 5:09 pm)

40k gross is over 150% of the federal poverty line for a family of 4 in 2019. If you're supporting a family on that you will end up with very little or perhaps even no income tax liability. And if you live in the middle of nowhere you'll probably even eventually be able to buy a manufactured home or something.

So yes, it's definitely doable. In flyoverland it's probably enough to even raise a family. Not lavishly or anything, but it would be relatively normal and a lot of people live on significantly less. Lawyers tend to skew towards people in big cities with big debts so they tend to get a skewed perspective of what's normal.

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parlance (Feb 7, 2019 - 7:11 pm)

Back in 2011, a Wall Street trader told me that we were living in era in which people were beginning to live with less and that those who successfully made the adjustment would come out of it ahead. Despite the considerable economic progress our country has made since then, I believe that analysis still holds true. We're not a widely prosperous society anymore, nor will we be again for a long time. It only makes sense then to learn how to make a dollar scream.

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onehell (Feb 8, 2019 - 11:21 am)

This is very correct. My theory is that the post-WWII boom years were an aberration; we've never seen that kind of widespread prosperity before and we will never see it again.

What we'll see moving forward is more of what we're already seeing. No new wealth is getting created in the middle and lower classes so the same house just passes down generation-to-generation, 2-3 generations live under one roof, etc., as was normal before WW2 and still is normal in a lot of other countries. For example, prior to the 1930s (and still in other countries) the 30 year mortgage didn't exist.

Ever noticed how millennials not only often live with parents well into late 20s and even 30s, but actually seem perfectly content to do that and work some low-stress starbucks job while taking Ubers everywhere?

As it was said in Fight Club, the stuff you own ends up owning you. The younger generations are figuring this out and not only living without owning stuff, but without even aspiring to. They don't want the old American dream, to them such a thing looks like shackles. In the smartphone era, so much of the stuff you used to have to buy is now just a subscription model. There's a certain freedom to the idea of living in a world where if you want to pick up and move, you just throw a week's worth of clothes and some electronics in a backpack and head to the airport. Tiny homes, hashtag-vanlife and such are also more of the same idea.

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anotherjd (Feb 8, 2019 - 11:43 am)

That's how a loser living with mommy spins it im sure.

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catwoman333 (Feb 9, 2019 - 1:34 am)

IMO, the REAL losers are those who live with a completely false illusion of wealth created mostly by debt (credit cards, huge mortgages) and driven largely by marketing hype and corporate greed. They dig themselves into massive debt and work themselves into an early grave by chasing after false trappings of "success" (big house, designer cars, "stuff" they don't really need). And for what? To impress a bunch of shallow people??

Housing prices are absurdly high. It's just bricks and mortar, folks. Even basics like food, utilities are ridiculously expensive: a carton of (organic) eggs costs $7.00 in some stores. A box of cereal is $5.00. How ridiculous is that?? At the same time, people are making less (and their standard of living is declining) than they did half a century ago, when people could easily buy a house and support a family of 4 on one income and still have plenty of savings left over for retirement.

I wouldn't want to live in a van, but I also wouldn't waste millions for a 40 year old, crumbling shack just because it overlooks the Golden Gate Bridge.

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gforce88 (Feb 10, 2019 - 2:04 am)

It depends how good looking you are, how tall you are, and how much of a creepy weirdo you are.

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